for me it would be ennemy at the gate because it perpetrated a verry bad interpretation of order 227 and it into the soviet hordes trope too ,also the soviet version of downfall with this ending about stalin in berlin
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Enemy at the gates is indeed one of these bad ones among many others playing into the Nazi apoligists who claim the “Soviet hordes” defeated them.
A horde is more of a racist trope, used as in horde of insects etc. Culturally Russia is an equal to Germany with its writers, architecture, technology and yes also aviation history. The Germans who at the time thought of themselves as “superhumans” were outmaneuvred and ended up defeated. Definition of hordes :
As for another misleading movie, Battle of the Bulge. As a movie it is well made but it paints the Germans as these “superhumans” with their M-48 Patton tanks in a Spanish desert which in NO WAY looks like the Ardennes. :-).
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communists are hordes who raped and occupied eastern Europe murdering millions in concentration camps, till America took them down and liberated the east. If you have problems with nazi apologiests then you should not be soviet apologist.
Cultural Russia has nothing to do with reds. writers, architecture, technology and yes also aviation history has nothing to do with them. Aviation was established in Russian empire and people inventing for soviets in prisons were educated in Russian empire, example Sergei Korolev. Writers were from Russian Empire, soviet writers were not able to come up with much great writings and if they were like Solzhenitsyn they had to flee, in 1920s soviets kicked out university educated. Architecture was built by Russian Empire, who hired german and italian architects, soviets would come up with crappy soviet designs that look ugly and fall apart nowadays. Technology goes same, space program, ak-47 and many factories were stolen after WW2 from germany, build on the backs of slave systems in concentration camps.
“No invasions can be worst for your homeland than the occupation by Lenin and Stalin. USSR is most definitely not Russia, it is the enemy of Russia.” Great Russian writer Ivan Shmelyov.
If talking about films any soviet propaganda film made about WW2 is real trash, but modern-day Russia is even worst. Here is just one example of the german tanks advancing at Barbarossa from the film “Burnt by the Sun 2” (in case you can not see what it is, it is german tanks with sails of swastika flags) 
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Can I quote Full Metal Jacket?
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are you going with the ak47 was a stg 44 plagiat when both gun are verry different? Also german wanted to make the general plan ost so for eastern europe,a war won by the german would have been far worst than the soviet union (and that’s not being a soviet apologist by the way since I acknowledge soviet union atrocity,just that I don’t think they were worst than nazi and by the way the Wehrmacht raped a lot to)
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Plan ost is a fiction of soviet imagination taught by communists propagandists.
AK was made by germans who created Stg.44, educate yourself in 1946 soviets moved all german specialists who worked in the city of Suhl to Izhevsk, including Hugo Schmeisser. Schmeisser was one of 16 Germans for which a special department (no. 58) was created at factory number 74, later known as Izhmash. Schmeisser was appointed as one of the five designers of the group, together with Kurt Horn and [Werner Gruner and Oscar Schink, under the formal leadership of Karl Barnitzke. in 1946/47 germans built first prototypes of AK47 and presented it to the soviets. Kalashnikov himself was nothing more than soviet nomenclature used specifically to give foreign and development from “unreliable” people to relieble soviets, he was uneducated, never developed anything in his life, his 1st submachine gun was Tommy gun they were made like anything soviets would do out scrap and was performing much worst then Tommy gun. By the way, soviet auto prom would steal exactly the same from Italians Lada 1200, and 1300 were basically ruined Fiat 124.
commies were much worst then nazis for many many people, but they not only murdered on race basis but also on a class basis. ask anyone in caucuses how they would move out and murder all villages just because of their race. creating ethnic tensions on purpose, Nagorny Karabakh is still a war zone. or maybe how soviets had a race policy in which Tajiks were not allowed to move outside of Tajikistan. You in the west have merry image of commies just becouse you never experianced it.
About rape, wehrmacht would rape much less women, red army would rape 2 million women just in Germany, it were the same rapists who were murdering their way through russian and east europe in 1920s, it was nothing new to them since the leaders of secret police and top governemnt circles would rape “political prisoners” or anyone who they deemd unreliable. In fact Cheka would rape their victims before murdering them in sadistic way, if you think gas chambers were horrible wait till you look at gulag tortur methids (btw during German - soviet friendship soviets would help germans establish concentration camps and teach them how to murder prisoners)
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oh boy a soviet imagination really? https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6eqm99/why_is_the_generalplan_ost_considered_different/
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpo%20sources.htm
regarding the ak (Inote: we are not tankie in sws since we recognise svoiet atrocity)
https://old.reddit.com/r/ShitWehraboosSay/search?q=ak+47&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on
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Reddit is not a place where i will prefer to get my knowledge. If you can not prove here to me anything about ak creating based on facts and reditt pictures, i have nothing to discuss furthermore. The same people built it as Stg.44, the same people improved their Stg.44 and then soviets called it AK-47 and gave credit to idiot political figure who was deemed reliable. In fact, they kept Hugo Schmeisser in the concentration camp where he got sick and soviets would not heal him, they only permitted him to go back to Germany to die there. Done
About plan ost what you presented here it is not a 100% play it is GPO, it is based on several plans and prescriptions but never actually made it further than Poland. You did not engage with any other arguments as well, so i do not see what is here to discuss further, i can also just on topics and pictures meems from the internet.
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the problem with plan ost is that a lot of document got destroyed after the war but considering the nature of nazi ideology ,I think that a lot of eastern european would got exterminated in case of a nazi victory (wich is impossible by the way) ,though regarding askhistorian,it’s pretty good source and I would argue that regarding the history,you have to chose the sub well (personally I wouldn’t go in a sub that try to paint the nazi as better than the ussr or try to make the nazi redeemable) ,badhistory is also great and regarding shitwehraboosay, my only major complain come with the bengal famine thread (always end in a battle between pro and anti churchill)
and regarding the movie you wrote about,I looked it up and yep it’s not good
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Exactly, you can only speculate if there were documents or not, if there was actual plan or not. In this case I can claim many things and say that the documents were just destroyed, look up conspiracy theories about aliens for example. you can not say that the play existed just because nazi ideology sounded like they would do it. Why then they would set up 1st Slovak state? ally to Bulgaria? Croatia? Lokot Autonomy? yes they hated slavs but hating and actively murdering everyone is two different things.
Both ideologies, communism and nazism are horrible, we in the east ended up between them. first soviets murdered us, then came the germans and we hoped they would liberate us, but in many cases they did not, so resistance formed and many were fighting them (ex. UPA), some were fighting with germans for vengeance (ex. Cossacks, Balts). Then germans left, and we were left with soviets who continued murdering us. Saying who was worse is like saying which bullet you prefer to hit your brain. It does not matter which if you are still dead. But by glorifying or saying that they were not as bad, when they were as bad is just dancing on graves. By the way grave sigtes are still hidden in soviet (russian) archives and monuments to thoes murdered by soviets are destroyed in russia or belarus.
From historical perspective 99% of modern russian film about war are horrible, the problem is that in russia they do not consider World War 2 a thing, it is never taught in schools as such. Russian / soviet education calls it Great Fathers War - starting 1941 ending 1945. Films made about it have to glorify soviet history and if they do not the will never be made, so producers try to put bits of criticism of soviets in there. In films are not done according to that they are outright forbidden like Wind from the East, Death of stalin or Generation War. But in most cases they just make trash films. Look up T-34 (2019), Black Hunters 1 (2008) and 2 (2010) (second one being especially bad due to it being a political hit piece on ukrainians) and many more. film that do not glorify soviets are normally considered bad, I Serve the Soviet union (2012) or Shtrafbat (TV series 2004)
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wasn’t there a white tiger movie too made by russia if I remember correctly?
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yes there was in 2012, actually a decent film by Karen Shakhnazarov. But it did not even cover 11 million budget only earning 7.2 due to it being shlaked because it did not glorify soviet army enough.
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the fact the Eisenhower himself came our to retirement to hold a press conference to denounce the historical inaccuracy should say something… but yes the no snow on the ground final battle kind of kills it. I went to the battlefield in the late 90s… hollowed ground.
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I’m conflicted in my choice for the worst WWII film:
- Ken Annakin’s Battle of the Bulge,
- Jonathan Mostow’s U-571,
- Michael Bay’s Pearl Harbor (this pissed me off the most).
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Based on the English definition which has an allussion to insects and sometimes refers to nomadic Mongol invasions a “horde” is simply a definition which is not just incorrect but IMO despicable. Note: The Nazis view all slavic people as subhuman. And these days “Westerners” are still arrogant towards people who live in the East (know this from personal experience) . Also the people in the Soviet Army were mostly drafted soldiers and probably traumatized from the systemic mass rape and murders by the Axis forces which invaded there country.
“If you have problems with nazi apologiests then you should not be soviet apologist.” I am not sure where you read that I am a Soviet apologist?
The Soviet system was horrible indeed, but they were organized on the battlefield as well as their production. They didn’t go for supertigertanks who stayed in workshop but built simple and effective designs.
As for the space program, well they did sent people in space first, took the veneras to Venus and designed a lot of planes. If you take a look at Monino there is a lot of great stuff there and the people there are very knowledgeable. Just an example: The MIG-15 was a huge surprise and is a great plane to fly and outclassed the Americans at first preventing them from daylight bombing raids which the Luftwaffels never could.
But: Feel free to disagree. As for the people in the East, they were stuck with horrible regimes on both sides :-(.
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What do you think of this one? It is pretty unrealistic and the Monino tour guide (male, started flying as a tailgunner on the IL-4 and basically almost ever Soviet/Russian plane) pointed out that women also flew in fighter/ dive bombers and not just the Biplanes which because of they high drag/low power are pretty tricky to fly anyway.
Contrary to you i do not make any connection of real Russia and the soviet occupies, same as i only recognise Republic of China not the communist mainland. So if human wave attacks with no guns into the enemy are not a horde then I do not know what is. Zhukov said: “why should I care about soldiers, women will give birth to more” (Бабы ещё нарожают). The soviet attitude towards soldier deployment which in many cases caused much unnecessary death is what defines this war. stalin: “the soviet union has no POW, we have only traitors” is another famous line, it is, of course, nice to say that nazis hated Slavs, but 24 million did not come from nazis just shooting people indiscriminately. I have no respect for soviets and even less for their command. But if you want to tell me that some westerners think of easterners as pigs, I would consider half of modern-day Russia as pigs in their behavior, a brainless soviet mob of degenerates. go to most “Russian” shops or districts, talk to people there. The soviet mentality of a slave is present well in their heads, nothing changed from soivet times, still same zastoy.
I think i summed up two paragraphs for you, as for tanks, no they just used American or build them with American parts, simple fact soviets did not have technology to make rotating turrets, so they used american technology for that, something germans did not have. Interestingly they still say Americans and British did nothing until D-Day and it was only soviets who were fighting. Inetersting fact that the soviets never actually payed for Lend - Lease.
As for space program - stolen from Germany and build with German scientists. Same with the nuclear program and mig, which is interesting you mention because: ussr did not have their own reactive engine, they never build them so the built MiG on the bases of Junkers Jumo 004, which is interestingly a german model, more to that US and UK had already developed by 1945 their own reactive engines and soviets as per usual were behind, soviets purchased Derwent and Nene type engines after the war from British company Rolls Royce which were developed by Frank Whittle. And as per MiG-15 being better then no, it was good against bombers but against F-86 they were not better in fact they would loose to F-86 in straight battles. They were surprised in the Korean War because nobody expected for communist chinese or North Koreans to have such planes. Luftwaffe on the other hand did not use their reactive Junkers as allies or soviets would use, so it is not that they were not able, they never tried to use them this way.
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To be fair i did not watch this one due to
A. not having interest in, wel lets be fair, not very well made series. you can see by people ostumes and how everything looks. It is too clean for my opinion.
B. To be fair this is techincally a prolonged version of soviet: в небе «ночные ведьмы» (in the skies night witches), or at least based on it which is a good drama but a big propaganda film.
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OK as for the MIG-15, there is a lot of new research out there which contradicts the USAF “kill numbers” based on prime sources and lots of interviews. Also the 15 was built for high altitude which were the bombers are, the Sabres couldn’t follow it there. This is the reverse of the Luftwaffe which had real problems with the Mustangs and its excellent high-altitude performance and decent octanefuel. It was an excellent design for its day and it did a lot better. (Note: slight bias as I have some dual flight time in a Mig-15, you can take lessons on these in Santa Fe as well as other jet warbirds)
But here for a more up to date, Korea would make a great add-on but might not be as popular as it was a fairly local frustrating war (might attract less viewers).
https://www.amazon.com/MiG-Alley-Force-Korea-1950-53/dp/1472836081
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tough question. while I would be quick to jump at the classic 70’s and 60’s movies those are minor in sin count as opposed to some films. basically any nazi zombie film ever made can be listed here (including Overlord, sorry) and certainly any ww2 movie The Asylum has put out (Operation Dunkirk) the one I would have to give the cake to as worst I’ve seen is in the zombie category and its called War of the Dead. technically its not a ww2 specific zombie movie as rather its set during the Winter War (for some reason) yet it does contain nazi zombies. The whole thing is a series of head scratching choices including the main characters to be US army personnel as volunteers for the Finnish against the soviets (fighting in their Class A dress uniforms for an added bonus) the whole thing is a nightmare of weird history, horrendous uniform authenticity, every stereotype the zombie genre has ever made and just overall an unpleasant watching experience, it also claims on the box that its a nazi zombie film, however i should note no nazi zombies are seen until the last 20 minutes of the movie, the rest of the time its Soviet zombies
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