Why the Nazis Weren’t Socialists - ‘The Good Hitler Years’ | BETWEEN 2 WARS I 1937 Part 2 of 2

I think you mean “far-right.” Conservatism =/= bigotry and hatred, necessarily. I know because my family and I are among them.

Tell me more about your experiences with these people. I’ve had negative experiences with mostly the left (especially in college).

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I mean conservatism in the american sense they conserve their wealth and political standing. Its different here, in Europe your left is toothless to an extent.

Toothless? More like childish, crazy and powerful, at least from my experience. Remember those SJWs? They were nothing new. They bullied and harassed me to the point of attempted suicide.

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They are as disgusting as any extremist generally is, a lot of really vocal minority people call themselves socialist or demsoc without knowing anything about either.

I’m sorry that happened to you anyone who actually cared about social justice wouldn’t treat someone so poorly.

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Well, it’s kinda too late. I was a critic of feminism at the time. After the beating, I have turned, to this day, anti-feminist. Now, anti-feminism =/= misogyny, no matter my wife’s opinions on women.

I’d never describe myself as a feminist but as someone who thinks about grand strategy I just think women should be enlisted as well.

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My opinion differs from yours on women in the military. Here’s mine, in essence:

Women can serve as long as it’s in a support capacity and not in the front-lines. But, please, don’t shove it down our faces. I don’t care as long as you’re capable and willing. One of them is among my favorite heroes I learned about as a kid – Aleda Lutz. Also, please don’t lower test standards to let them in. It’s irresponsible.

TL;DR: Women can serve, except in combat.

Hell, I even discussed it on Quora: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-backwards-political-fact-you-know/answer/Sean-Kernan/comment/128659367

You should see what my wife thinks about women in the military. It’s gonna shock you.

Remember the Marxists in my class who justified North Vietnamese crimes? Here was what one of them said to my face, as I remember them 24 years later:

They’re Asians subjugated by American capitalist pigs. What did you expect, you asshole? The war was a crime against humanity. Those boat people – they’re fucking liars. Don’t take their words for it. America would have committed genocide in Vietnam! Look at My Lai! The only reason the Vietnamese killed their own was because the “victims” were American puppets. They want consistency in their lives and the U.S. butchered their chances. Kindly fuck off, Norman.

Its a pretty common opinion, nothing to be crazy about either way. I just support women in aviation and support roles. I do think they can do more but I’m not a fucking supreme commander.

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It’s alright. I had that opinion based primarily on the studies conducted by the military, testing female combat effectiveness. Also, the situation with the military in the '90s certainly helped with my perception.

My wife Amy, on the other hand, said this:

Women should never serve in the military at all. Ever. Even in a support capacity. It’s supposed to be a man’s world and yet women are ruining it with their feminine touches. I wish that those military academies never let women in. I wish those women who served throughout history had the doors shut on their faces.

Her intentions and yours puppeting them seems like a further extrapolation of how you don’t understand new wars now.

Also my army wife has a different opinion but I won’t post it because its hostile cause your wife seems like a simp.

How am I puppeting her? It’s her opinion, not mine. Despite new technology in recent wars, we still have to use people just in case things get really serious and turn up to a big scale.

As I often retorted to my colleagues, this is the military, not a stage play.

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A simp, eh? The fallout from the Tailhook scandal didn’t help change her opinion. And yes, I disagree with her. It’s not like she’s forcing you to agree with her. If your Army wife has a different opinion, I welcome it. :slight_smile:

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That just opens you up to bad reading practices. It’s the kind of thing that I know people like Mark Lilla would kill you for doing if you said that on a paper about the Leviathan to him. The presence of a penumbra doesn’t mean the object or idea doesn’t exist and share commonalities, or Just because the system of thought isn’t closed doesn’t mean in the development of thought, there aren’t commonalities. The biggest one shared by everyone from Marxist-Leninists to market socialists (though they limit the application) is that marginal utility is bad for understanding value of things, and in the process kills the idea of profit (market socialists tend to like Pareto-optimal settings, and in mixed economic settings, tend for some items dislike marginal utility as a way of valuing something, like say vaccines)

Ergo, we should be looking at how they feel about profit and profit-seeking

Ummm, Mazel Tov, so we’re repeating Adam Smith?

no seriously, here’s a list of regulations Adam Smith, the founder of laissez-faire-ness, supported

Here is a list extracted from Wealth Of Nations:

  • the Navigation Acts, blessed by Smith under the assertion that ‘defence, however, is of much more importance than opulence’ (WN464);
  • Sterling marks on plate and stamps on linen and woollen cloth (WN138–9);
  • enforcement of contracts by a system of justice (WN720);
  • wages to be paid in money, not goods;
  • regulations of paper money in banking (WN437);
  • obligations to build party walls to prevent the spread of fire (WN324);
  • rights of farmers to send farm produce to the best market (except ‘only in the most urgent necessity’) (WN539);
  • ‘Premiums and other encouragements to advance the linen and woollen industries’ (TMS185);
  • ‘Police’, or preservation of the ‘cleanliness of roads, streets, and to prevent the bad effects of corruption and putrifying substances’;
  • ensuring the ‘cheapness or plenty [of provisions]’ (LJ6; 331);
  • patrols by town guards and fire fighters to watch for hazardous accidents (LJ331–2);
  • erecting and maintaining certain public works and public institutions intended to facilitate commerce (roads, bridges, canals and harbours) (WN723);
  • coinage and the mint (WN478; 1724);
  • post office (WN724);
  • regulation of institutions, such as company structures (joint- stock companies, co-partneries, regulated companies and so on) (WN731–58);
  • temporary monopolies, including copyright and patents, of fixed duration (WN754);
  • education of youth (‘village schools’, curriculum design and so on) (WN758–89);
  • education of people of all ages (tythes or land tax) (WN788);
  • encouragement of ‘the frequency and gaiety of publick diversions’(WN796);
  • the prevention of ‘leprosy or any other loathsome and offensive disease’ from spreading among the population (WN787–88);
  • encouragement of martial exercises (WN786);
  • registration of mortgages for land, houses and boats over two tons (WN861, 863);
  • government restrictions on interest for borrowing (usury laws) to overcome investor ‘stupidity’ (WN356–7);
  • laws against banks issuing low-denomination promissory notes (WN324);
  • natural liberty may be breached if individuals ‘endanger the security of the whole society’ (WN324);
  • limiting ‘free exportation of corn’ only ‘in cases of the most urgent necessity’ (‘dearth’ turning into ‘famine’) (WN539); and
  • moderate export taxes on wool exports for government revenue (WN879).

Reality: there’s no such thing as a free market without government intervention because otherwise, I can’t trust the idea of money nor the words in a contract (implicit or explicit) when I’m in a market. Without regulation, markets tend to over-exert themselves and collapse. if I don’t have guarantees you aren’t poisoning my apple that you sell me, or aren’t just going to outright steal my stuff, there’s no market. There’s anarchy.

That and let’s throw out every Keynesian and call them socialist (which they would universally yell at you about because they are totally fine with marginal utility.

He does do this in some pernicious ways. starting with my two favorite examples

  1. My maternal grandfather a’h was in Monowitz-Buna (a subcamp of Auschwitz, aka Auschwitz III aka the one march of the living rarely visits…). The camp makes no sense without profit-seeking, as it was basically owned by IG Farben. while my grandfather didn’t get paid, the SS charged for his labor. (wages of destruction talks extensively about the issue since the whole conception of most of Auschwitz was built on expanding Buna, not creating Birkenau, originally. Because IG Farben’s chairman wanted to war profit and managed to cozy up to the government. The state NEVER OWNED IG FARBEN!!! the state NEVER STOPPED IG FARBEN FROM MAKING A PROFIT!!!
  2. The warsaw ghetto uprising was masterminded largely by Bundists, aka the Jewish socialists who weren’t the zionists, who they briefly had to make friends with to make it work. Socialist thought also drove resistance at Auschwitz ( Roza “Shoshanna” Robota was an active member in Hashomer HaZair, which was and is explicitly zionist-socialist[1]

JFC, this is a misreading of Hitler. Hitler likes power relationships, that’s the whole premise of the 3rd Reich

… The rest of this isn’t even worth fisking. He wants to conflate “free market” with “individual freedom” in a variety of ways (they’re not, but ok). I don’t even want to get into how he totally ignores ideas like Theory of the Firm (hey, Coase won the Nobel for that). And I definitely don’t want to even touch on how he misunderstands where antisemitism comes from

So now we know the guy ignores how to read and understand the history of thought which is why even the museum and memorial at Auschwitz is worried about this crap. Seriously:

https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1209352429948542976

[1] jews and socialism is a thing historically speaking, especially during this time because of what we would now call intersectional ideas about getting rid of profit-seeking and creating a brotherhood of man, and feeling that classical liberal ideas didn’t go far enough in terms of emancipation especially as industrialization became widespread.

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I wasn’t defending TIK. I was just telling them what TIK said, which I also disagree with.

Did you have quote me on that? Especially with:

I think TIK’s main issue, other than the potential “denial of the Holocaust” and “historians not knowing how economics work” (his words), is that saying “Nazis weren’t socialists” is a defense of socialism. I disagree with him, but I despise socialists (thought not to the extent I despise communists). The reality is far more complicated, just like everything with history.

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Good points in this discussion.

One thing I wonder: in the video TIK argues he was a socialist + Jeremy Corbyn ex-leader of the UK labour party got a LOT of criticism of the Simon Wiesenthal centre. Maybe it is personal for him. This is just a hunch.

(I only saw a few minutes of the video and early on Hitler considered even returning the Emperor source John Rohl which is a-socialist). Hitler and his cronies seem to primarily have been a bunch of genocidal maniacs with no real fixed economic principle s. I am pretty sure they would have aligned with the flying Sauerkraut monster party had they held the key to power.

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