Very mixed feelings in my case. But the US amunition is of better quality compared to the Russian, so the most contamination of Ukraine with failed subamunition will be of Russian origin. I hope that the US Army has an Idea how to find the Akmerican made duds.
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Well I will say the US has a history of leaving behind cluster munitions so maybe we have learned to find them. But very strong feeling that this is somehow sacrificing kids tomorrow for the ability to kill today.
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I understand the realities and dangers of cluster munitions and how devastating they can beâŠVietnam case in point(hundreds maimed and dozens killed each year by UXOs)
As to Ukraine using cluster munitions I say go for it as they have given written guarantees to the US on how they would be used and basically giving the Russians a taste of their own medicine. However unlike the Russians Ukrainians will not target civilians or cities but they will target Russian Fortifications and mine fields in the countryside.
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I do understand the conditions and I believe both sides had already used cluster munitions leftover from the old USSR. And I can see giving it back to them. I just donât feel good because the open fields being used are fields that are farmed and used by humans and animals for many things. Vietnam is a nightmare of old explosives and I hope it never resembles that. Mines alone will be awful
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It is currently estimated that it will take in excess of 100 yrs to clear Ukraine of mines, UXOs and booby traps. The city of Izyum was liberated 8 months ago and approximately 35% of the buildings, fields and infrastructure is still mined and the diminers say it will take another 2 years to find and diffuse around 90% of the remaining mines, booby traps and UXOs leaving an unknown amount still not found.
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I do not think the US has put any effort in finding the left behind ammunition , the US has not fought a land war on its own soil so they do feel the need to find them.
They go in shock and awe stay a short time and get out, leaving a lot of crap behind.
This could also be a reason they do not have a problem with cluster ammunition , it is not their civilians getting hurt by the crap left behind but it is their militairy that benefits from the use of them.
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No one wants to have this discussion but I agree with you. They have a variant of a himarrs with anti personnel like a shot gun shell. I donât think the cluster munitions will change the war but you all know I think we will give just enough weapons to keep the war going and I donât know that we care what happens to Ukraine. I donât have any ideas to fix it other than allowing Ukraine to take the war to Russia.
As said earlier in this thread, it is Putinâs war to win, lose or end.
And because it is Putins war to win lose or end I think it was a big mistake to accuse him of war crimes while the war was still ongoing.
I get why they would want to but this reduced the chance of Putin coming to the table to talk about pulling out of the war.
First priority should be to end the killing, de-escalate and then when it is all over try and get justice for the wronged.
Even if we all know that on a political scale justice for the wronged is never a priority.
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I do not know any non public information, but that was what lend lease looked like 500 days after the 1. September 1939. Battle of France lost and the British under siege. Ukraine on the road to victory the Uktrainian Army modernized enough? No but the situation of training and supply constantly improving. And Sweden on the way to Article 5.
Canada just announced we will train 40,000 Ukrainian troops in Latvia and will train Ukrainian officer cadets at St-Jean-sur-Richlieu.
Itâs nice to have friends.
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In addition to that the Canadian forces are still training Ukrainian troops in Poland on how to operate leopard tanks, mine clearing, advanced battlefield first aid, training troops on NATO battle tactics and weaponry, special forces training(including sniper and demolition) and will be training pilots on operating the F-16 and will be teaching command and control to officers.
Add to that Canada will be increasing troops in Latvia to bring the NATO force there up to brigade strength(currently have 1000 personnel there and will be increasing it to 2200).
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Which is equivalent to rhe beigade we stationed in Germany during the Cold War.
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With the latest drone attack on a Russian warship that badly damaged it and is likely going to sink I find it funny Russian high command stated that they navy successfully thwarted an attempt to sink or damage their warships.
Unfortunately the problem Russian high command has is that one ship is in the harbour badly listing and is sinking and in full view of the Russian public and there are literally hundreds of videos and pictures online already showing the pride of the Russian navy slowly sinking in plain sight and their propaganda machine is already behind the eight ball.
The latest report has the ship encountering mechanical issues that has caused a severe list although they cannot explain the obvious burn marks and earlier videos and pictures had shown clearly visible damage at the waterline.
Letâs see how they cover this debacle up this time.
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Having seen the video, the ship may not sink but given Russian repair facilities, I wouldnât expect much service out of it for a couple years. Another stellar performance in ship self defense.
On the other hand, Iâm sure our Navy is having nightmares on the same scenarios.
Pretty well any navy will being looking hard at this and finding ways to counteract drones. So far the US is the leader in this after the USS Cole incident and have some fairly sophisticated equipment to detect and disable sea drones but again it comes down to how well trained people are, how itâs used and how diligent the crews are.
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Anti missile defence had becomme very important for ships since the sinking of INS Eilat in 1967. From Wikipedia:
" Though not highly publicized at the time, the sinking had a considerable impact on the Israeli Navy. Israel started to develop plans for German-influenced ship designs better suited to missile combat, principally small and efficient boats armed with missiles, able to patrol Israeli shores and undertake offshore operations at high speed, while at the same time able to evade enemy tracking and missiles."
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Havent been checking the forum, but here a quick answer to comments from months ago. Keep in mind, Gerhard, that I say that as a German citizen and tax payer, who would like my country to be governed wisely and efficiently.
Yes, Germany has rather deep ties with China, specifically economical reliance. The Kiel institute has published a recent study on that (1). Our gov has recently unveiled a plan to reduce the reliance. Even without a Taiwan war, our reliance on China is beginning to bite us because almost 30% of our economy depends on car manufacturing and China is shaping up to contest the leadership in EV manufacturing.
The German contributions to the NATO total budget have been stellar only when you forget the existance of Purchasing Power Parity and donât scale by GDP. Beyond that, even the existing spending has been inefficient with around 3x as much spent on Administation / Other than in other countries. For comparison, France has a lower defence budget, but can somehow afford an aircraft carrier and a nuclear umbrella. Perun has made a very informative video on that topic a while back (2).
Regarding more recent events, German âleadershipâ is more observable now as the gov has tacitly avoided getting involved in the jet question (so didnt block it) and is generally willing to supply equipment. At the same time, the gov has not chosen comparable rhetoric as FR, UK or anybody to our East (no word of Ukrainain victory). And the current debate about Taurus shows the reluctance to commit futher. So yeahâŠleadership from the back as they call it, right?
I would wish for my country of citizenship to take a clearer role in protecting European peace based on the Paris accords and the UN charta. Yet I am optimistic, that Poland and France will take that mantle and Germany will reluctantly follow.
(1): Empty shelves made in China: When China blocks trading | Kiel Institute
(2): Germany, rearmament, and Ukraine - "Why 100 billion Euro may not fix the German military" - YouTube
Die Bundeswehr (Panzergrenadiere) ist in Litauen zusammen mit VerbĂŒndeten, an der polnischen Ostgrenze und in der Slovakei (deutsch/niederlĂ€ndische Patriot Batterien) zum Schutz des Luftraums prĂ€sent, weiter vorne möchte ich wirklich nicht. Wohin in Afrika soll denn die Bundeswehr den Franzosen denn noch folgen? Ich habe zahlreiche Informationen zur Bundeswehr in diesem Forum zur VerfĂŒgung gestellt. Ich habe hier auch mehrmals Perun empfolen sofern ich ihn fĂŒr das Thema relevant fand. Das Gute an seinem Beitrag zum Sondervermögen war, dass er nur die lang bekannten âSkandaleâ wiederholt hat, und das nach Heutigen Stand der vefĂŒgbaren Informationen das âSondervermögenâ nicht von Unternehmensberatern verbrannt wird. Als deutscher StaatsbĂŒrger sollte man natĂŒrlich die Regierungspolitik durchaus kritisch aber auch sachlich beobachten.
Ich empfehle dann nochmal (besonders fĂŒr Deutsche) die Youtube Reihe âNachgefragtâ der Bundeswehr.
You are rightly pointing out the stationing of our troops in Lithuania and Slovakia. These engagements are noteworthy.
Are they indicative of leadership (as our politicians constantly like to talk about)? How do they compare to the damage our misguided and dillusional foreign policy has done? Will our actions together with our allies suffice to restore the European peace order of the Paris accords?
Beyond the narrow scope of our military, are we spinning up our manufacturing to supply those defending European peace?
What about readiness? Are we truly ready to defend Lithuania, once the trip wire has been engaged?
It doesnât seem like it. We are moving into the right direction, but too slowly and too hesitantly and frankly the personal commitment of most of our citizens is doubtful. Itâs getting slowly better.
Thank you for the references to channels. I am quite familiar with them and can confirm the recommendation.
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I do not know much about the readyness to defend Lithuania, but the âtrip wireâ is history. The Lithuanians had been very firm about beeing defended and not âliberated asapâ after Butcha, and doing their best to help the Bundeswehr (and friends) to be usefull (preparing the infrastructure for permanent stationing of troops with more firepower they can afford) and gearing up their own military (more Vilkas).