The valiant Defenders of Ukraine

My issue with Russia is that it continually projects itself as the victim here and has done no wrong at all and is protecting its national sovereignty from imaginary enemies(namely nazis).

Add to the fact it has perpetrated numerous false flag operations on its own people and armed forces to prove that it is a victim here. In case you are wondering it is thought that over 300 false flag operations have been done by Russia but only 34 have been documented as being done by them with proof.

Add to that the Russian military is still lying daily about losses of men, material and equipment. They still operate several mobile crematoriums to cremate their own forces so there is plausible deniability of actual deaths(if there is no corpse then where is the proof). They have openly stated on many occasions the Russian dead are actually Ukrainians dressed in stolen Russian military uniforms to show the high death count Russia has suffered. Then there are the Russian wives and mothers who demand answers and are often stonewalled or given false information about their loved ones.

Then there is the treatment of POWs both countries are guilty of mistreatment but Russia has made it an art form and continually deny any wrong doing yet they will not let the Red Cross, UN inspectors or other agencies do inspections or tours of their POW camps.

I could go on a don but the end result is no matter what is said Russia will always try to make itself look like the victim instead of the aggressor.

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What is publicly know is that a Russian missile exploded in Poland killing 2.
It is not known where the missile was launched from.
If Poland enacts article 5 and states that Russia attacked a NATO member and NATO responds then it a full on war and a lot more people will die.
I hope it will not come to a full on war but backing down like Neville Chamberlain will only make NATO weaker and Russia more dangerous.

That is the postion of the Russian media. My country is not at war with Russia, my goverment dos not send weapons to kill random Russians. The “proxy war” idea had been the most racist idea about wars ever: Kurds, Afghani, Israeli, Arabs, Vietnamese, Koreans and now Ukrainians had been/are not suffering because chess players in Washington, Beijing or Moscow.

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You need to stop watching Scott Ritter, he is a Putin apologist and actively repeats Russian talking points. He was also one of the apologists inspiring our old friend Dejan. He uses his disquise of military specialism to spew a lot of Kremlin propaganda. He was suspended on twitter (pretty hard to do) because of the following tweet:

The Ukrainian National Police committed numerous crimes against humanity in Bucha. Biden, in seeking to shift blame for the Bucha murders onto Russia, is guilty of aiding and abetting these crimes. Congratulations America
 we’ve created yet another Presidential war criminal!

I don’t think I need to remind you what kind of lunatic you have to be to spew such nonsense

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I have not seen any of his videos so is he true Putin believer or does he just make money shoveling shit?

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Uh I will decide for myself what I watch and if you don’t like it escalate to the moderators. You are not a moderator. Oh and banned from Twitter is not an argument as that bird is not the new Diets. Alsopeople who say things I disagree with does can say some sensible other things.

So I agree with Ritter on his 1987 example when there were negotiations during the Afghan proxy? War. This is huge contrast to now when there is too much hardball and nukes again become a threat. Maybe watch some 80s flicks on the nuke threat if you want to.

Oh and I am anti Putin but no fan of the Nazi symbol using Ukraine Azov battalion either.( if that makes me a Putin puppet in your mind I don’t care either)

And I never was on Twitter and am awaiting your escalation to the mods.

Yes, we know that the Ukrainians have done mistreatment, because they had been cooperating with the ICRC, the Russian side follows the Soviet modell: Rules of war are made for our enemies.

Who cares, I have wasted some (to few) time to find out, do not make the same mistake.

Meanwhile an update on other Ukraine related news.

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What is a symbol used by the Nazis ruling Germany and a symbol used by idiots who fancy Nazi Germany is Youtube entertainers clicbait. In Germany the use of the numbers 18 are 88 are watched as indicators of neonazism. (a =1, h =8, so every use of 18 may be Adolf Hitler, 88 is Heil Hitler).

Some information abuot the symbol:

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There has been lots of talk about Canadas contribution to the Ukrainian war effort. We were the first western nation to start training Ukrainian troops back in 2015 followed by GB and the US and all three are still training troops in Britain, Poland, Germany and yes even Canada.

Another lesser known contribution is the armour that Canada has supplied to Ukraine which the Ukrainians have made great use of even going beyond what the vehicles were designed for and one Canadian company leading the charge is this one in Ontario

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Only 8 cars of this company made it into the puplic list of deliveries. The Canadian help to Ukraine is great, your defence spokeswoman made me swearing when she misspoke the Canadian delivery of winterequipment to be 500 pieces, not 500.000.

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Hello.

I wish I had the time to scour through almost 800 messages so I try to make my point brief, and try to make it only once.

You should kindly stop overblowing the importance of the now destroyed and captured Azov Battalion. Anybody who pays close attention to War against humanity videos knows, that after the initial thought of liberation, most Ukrainians quickly realized that the Nazis are worse than the Soviets. There was no ethnic motivation to starve people.

Those who chose to willingly collaborate with the Nazis to the bitter end did so because they hated Jews way more than they cared about Nazis working their compatriots down to the bone and take blonde haired children for German couples who can’t have kids. In short, most in Ukraine, especially those whose ancestors were subject to slave labor or revenge killings, would not and do not ever support the Azov Batallion unless they’re psychopaths.

Among Americans the ones who have a comparable experience are people like George Takei, actually innocent Japanese Americans dragged off the streets and put into camps, not to mention the numerous other East Asians reported to authorities as locals didn’t bother to discern between ethnicities.

Azov Batallion was seen locally as a necassry evil and many were foreigners who families weren’t killed by Nazis, their allies or the Soviets.

As for the original comparison. Time does not happen in a vacuum. The HQ of the FSB is in the Lyubyanka prison infamously used by the KGB while the head of state is a former station chief of the KGB who was so much trusted he had a Stasi ID and didn’t need to ask permission to use Stasi and KGB agents for his missions. Patriarch Cyrill was a KGB agent, so are many oligarchs within Putin’s circle.

They changed the uniform, not the mentality. The goal still is to bomb Ukraine into submission so that Putin can create the Kievan Rus 2.0 and make Russia directly border the EU. For several years now, Putin was busy recreating the Warsaw Pact and the COMECON to compete with the EU, China and the US, especially once they run out of oil.

Last December he issued a threat to NATO based on the conspiracy theory that NATO made a pledge to not expand eastwards. I’m Hungarian and by golly, we have issues with irredentism, go no further than the PM wearing a Greater Hungary shawl to a match. During WWII the Nazis had allies who hated each other and Hitler made promises both to extend or reverse the Vienna Accords based on who he was talking to. This conflict only got frozen in time during the Soviet ocupation and reignited immediately after the Cold War. Joining NATO was vital to avoid war in the region, and joining the EU was vital to do trade.

I wish I could tell you that it’s not important how willing would people be to leave the EU, the stone cold truth is, whenever the government finally gets its compeuppance by having funds for being a repeat offender
 many would support a Huxit.

Instead of the Azov Battalion it would maybe more wise to talk about the lasting aftereffects regarding the lack of freedom of thought in Ukraine. Nobody needs censorship to actively quell inalienable human freedoms when users themselves opt out. Both Hungary and Poland have carbon copies of deep red state American laws in connection with abortion, yet you don’t see literal hundreds of thousands of women marching on the streets demanding a change. These societies lack the covalescent bond to stand up for each other for the mutual benefit and this is how you get strongmen.

How does Ukraine factor in? For starters it’s enough to recall how Zelenskiy supported Boris Johnson even though he tanked the economy, flaunted COVID rules and actively tried to undermine international law. Yet because Johnson sent money and weapons beneficial to Kyiv to them he’s a great guy.

Which should heavily alarm you. Instead of thinking like a democrat and accept that leaders come and go, Volodymir saw a strongman in Boris, therefore he doesn’t respect the institution, only the man holding the title. Nobody in their right mind would have thought that if Sunak or Truss is PM then help will suddenly stop. Only people think like that who box themselves in by limit their thinking on as they do things at home that’s how it works everywhere.

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I do not recall Zelensky that has supported THE BORIS or Brexit. I remember Johnson traveling to Ukraine to get positive news and the Ukrainians happy about it, but very much to busy to have ideas about what is or has happend in British politics. But welcome to the forum, it is good to get input from people with other backgrounds.

Hello Gerhard,

To our discussion, yes, Zelenskiy’s opinion on Brexit would be irrelevant as he was still a civilian comedian at the time it happened. He was however already president when he congratulated Boris on managing to survive the vote of no confidence.

Certainly, to a much lesser extent, but Ukraine isn’t free of hyperboles either as evidenced by initially denying that the rockets which hit a Russian farm were from Ukraine. I can’t be 100% they did that because they feared admission would mean Poland no longer supports them, or because they believed the good guys don’t ever make mistakes.

We shall never lose sight of the fact that the ideal of Enlightenment both provides the freedom from and of religion and monarchies. The geopolitical region of Eastern Europe for starters didn’t enjoy personal freedoms for the peasantry so in 1848 while more evolved societies made upgrades to the ideals of French Revolution, the region in question merely fought for personal freedoms 5 centuries overdue.

This is why so many migrated to America, seeking land that they couldn’t own back home. Those who stayed eventually got land for a short period after WWII , and now after the end of the Cold War.

If I could liken Eastern Europe to Texas, I would say both proclaim to be its thing in a union that supposed to cooperate. It’s not relevant to this particular discussion, but certain red states in the US had a heaping helping of immigrants from regions which had absolutism. It’s why they listen so intently to what a preacher has to say instead of applying critical thinking. To be clear, I’m criticizing the idea of voluntarily abandoning critical thought, not people who happen to live there. People similar mindsets to mine either stay and fight for change or live where they can be who they are.

Ukraine is a nation with a rich history which was denied statehood for far too long. When it happened, it was via their oppressor collapsing. The change has to be internal to stick.

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Beeing a “Brexit Watcher”, I have to tell you that you are mistaken, the Brexit happend when Zelensky was president (2019/2020). Only outside Britain, exept Ireland and the EU Commission Brexit looks done. The Brits still are busy, with “Brittannia waves the rules”. But this is actually unimportant to us.

I think they do it carelessly, not voluntarily.

I can’t speak for red states, I’m more familiar with Hungary, and similar to how Russian propaganda has overblown the importance of the Azov Battalion. If you could read in native Hungarian, you would read quite a few eyebrow raising comments.

The head of state just visited Ukraine and under her Facebook post quite a few people talk more about how the conflict affects Hungary, a country not bombed by rockets, so it lacks electricity. Or how a far-right monument’s removal (something Zelenskiy has nothing to do with) was an alleged giant blow to the Hungarian society. Some claim Russians did a favor by erupting the conflict.

People who elect Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene are not careless, they voluntarily want to be as despicable as possible. Hungary is sadly not dissimilar.

A crucial point to critical thinking IMHO is to look at all the available information and make a sound decision instead of relying on a non-elected figure who think themselves as a divine ruler.

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I a agrree completly, but wo is the " non-elected figure who think themselves as a divine ruler " in your opinion?

I think this is about the reality of the people who are safe and providing and the Ukrainians, not getting what they need to live:

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