You would because America didn’t invade Ukraine, nor did it illegally provoke Russia to do so. If you’re trying to make friends with someone and try to be supportive of someone in an abusive relationship, then is it your fault the abuser molests that person more? They may have been abused less had you not been there, but they would also have been alone and less resilient.
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I think Afghanistan is a bellweather.
Not for an imminent collapse of the west but for making the decline visible for all to see. For all the west’s military power, we could not permanently defeat a small-ish but determined group who simply outlasted us to the point where we no longer considered our presence there worth it.
The decline is in progress, and it is slow but steady. The resources simply do not exist to give everyone in the world a ‘western’ life style even if we could feed, say, 10 billion people. The latter being possible but the former not so much. Post 1945 much of the west’s wealth depended on being able to continuously claim disproportional share of resources. This is now contested by the likes of China, and they have cornered the market on many rare but essential materials.
I firmly believe that if they really wanted, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States could (if they could get African countries to go along) shut the western economy down in a matter of months if not weeks. The question would then be: who would be able to hold out longer?
Our big fleets are eesentially useless against land based weapons, rocketry and so on. I saw a lecture from some professor some time ago, I think it was on YouTube, he said: the first thing that will happen in the next war is that all aircraft carriers will be sunk.
Immigration? Basically you ain’t seen nothing yet. The point will come where you have to be willing to shoot to stop people and how long will people want to do that?
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Latest update.
Russia has according to Jane’s military index some 935,000 active personnel and approximately 1.9 million in the reserves however that number is a misnomer as in reality Russia has around 230,000 front line active duty ground troops(2019) 160,000 active duty naval personnel and 120,000 active duty Air Force personnel the other 425,000 personnel are support personnel (cooks, electricians, plumbers, machinists, drivers, motor pool, camp attendants and so forth) of the 510,000 active duty personnel around 65% of them are conscripts doing their one year active duty service. As to the reserve forces most of them are conscripts who can March pretty but have next to nothing for combat training and for the most part are considered cannon fodder by the Russian high command.
Russia has given its all to the fight in Ukraine and is basically running on fumes right now having lost most of its modern equipment and trained personnel and Russian authorities are spinning web after web of lies to boost its propaganda machine (memories of Sadam Hussien’s propaganda minister here) and mostly failing at it.
That does not mean they are giving up but are using every available means to get what they want short of nuclear options to prove they can get the job done. Putin has sacked or lost over 75 generals so far this year and he has become increasingly isolated and distrusting of anyone outside his circle (Stalin anyone).
The Russian navy has proven to be extremely ineffective and the airforce won’t even do sorties over Ukrainian controlled airspace and the ground forces are exhausted, undermanned, under trained and increasingly demoralized. Yet they are pressing ahead doing the Russian Bear thing using scorched earth policy, false flag operations and throwing masses of men and material at the enemy hoping to break their lines and morale.
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Not America’s. Just US. It’s elite actually. Average Joe/Jane are just manipulated into being cannon fodder.
There is nothing illegal with denazifiction and demilitarization of Nazis. It is in UN charter which is the base for international law - if you care about it all-of-a-sudden.
Watching support for Nazism from other parts of “world community” (aka NATO) with it’s spread ever so closer to your borders would do that one’s perception of times to come. Specially when one has lost large chunk of population last time round when trusting “world community” and it’s international laws.
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Actually reading your replies convinced me I was wrong. I don’t care about your biased opinions my bad.
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Same here. Just trying to provide some reason, balance in this valiant echo chamber. For the sake of historical integrity.
I am hardly presenting here my opinion, just the facts that you, apparently don’t like.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Valiant indeed.
Much like Russia’s current recruitment drive, then.
LOOK! Here’s a picture of some SERBIAN neo-NAZIS. It proves SERBIA is a NAZI COUNTRY
I think best course of action is for NATO to conduct special military operation against SERBIA to destroy all Serbian NAZIS and DENAZIFY the country. I’m sure you agree, it’s LEGAL in international law on the basis of the UN charter
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Russian propaganda channels have started to say “Russia is at war with NATO.” Um, no. Ukraine proved they had more mettle than anyone suspected. NATO provided aid to a free people to defend its internationally-recognized borders and sovereignty. NATO tried for a negotiated peace even after the invasion, much to the surprise of many Russian generals
NATO has five times as many troops as Russia. Don’t even go there. Don’t even think of going there. It would not be wise to tickle NATO that way.
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Those are five people.
Ukraine has national policies of rehabilitation and celebration of Nazism. Streets are named, monuments of anti-fascists removed, Nazis integrated in all structures of public life.
and even before denazification started:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUKKBN1GV2TY
According to Freedom House’s Ukraine project director Matthew Schaaf, “numerous organized radical right-wing groups exist in Ukraine, and while the volunteer battalions may have been officially integrated into state structures, some of them have since spun off political and non-profit structures to implement their vision.” Schaaf noted that “an increase in patriotic discourse supporting Ukraine in its conflict with Russia has coincided with an apparent increase in both public hate speech, sometimes by public officials and magnified by the media, as well as violence towards vulnerable groups such as the LGBT community,” an observation that is supported by a recent Council of Europe study.
Baltic states are removing monuments honouring liberators from Nazism.
Croatia is openly identifying itself with Nazi heritage, celebrating genocide over Serbs, Jews, Gypsies.
NATO should clear their own ranks before preaching to others.
It is really surprising that people on this forum, that should know history are so ignorant on how bad Nazism and Neo-Nazism really are.
In several videos the tying up and beating of Ukrainian citizens is performed by regular Ukrainian Armed Forces members, suggesting that legal and civil rights have been effectively abandoned in a country that is supposedly a pinnacle of European “democracy” compared to the “totalitarian” Putin regime.
What a pathetic bunch Ukrainian supporters turn out to be.
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I can give you pictures of more people if you want. It was more about the point. Something you obviously missed. The point is that the evidence for a Ukraine run by nazis and naziism being deeply entrenched in Ukrainian society is weak at best, but most probably a blatant lie used to cover an act of aggression. I can point at any country in the world and discover radical elements there.
As for Ukraine, their far right movements are vehemently anti-Russian. So while there may be a problem with these far-right movements, their problems with Russia are far greater. Because these groups are loyal to Ukraine and can be trusted to fight for Ukraine, the government lets them be. Now they can all die as far as I’m concerned, but hopefully they’ll take a few Russians along the way. You see, the only nazi problem in Ukraine is that it doesn’t fight its nazis because they are fighting for Ukraine. As for how large of a following these groups actually have, this is very small. The Svoboda party, which can be seen as a reactionary nationalist party, only got 2.15% of the votes in the 2019 parlamentary election and its presidential candidate got 1.62% of the vote in the 2019 election. That’s a pretty strong counter argument to far-right values being deeply entrenched in Ukrainian society.
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It is interesting how a “socialist” organization can throw its cause so easily behind reactionary and ultranalionalist conspiracies. They have a dedicated tab on anti-imperialism, but its only anti-US-imperialism. When Russia commits imperialism, it’s apparently all good. Their page on the subject is literally titled: “US-NATO Conflict with Russia over Ukraine”. They don’t even recognize that Ukraine is a major player in the conflict, so much so that they are almost doubting its right to an existence. By not recognizing Russia’s imperialist goals and Ukraine’s right to a sovereign state for the Ukrainian people, you dismiss the right of the Ukrainian people to exist. This line of reasoning is in direct support of a series of actions that will ultimately lead to a genocide of the Ukrainian people. Were we to turn our heads and look away, Putin would have his hands free to do as he likes and eradicate the Ukrainian culture and its people.
So for my fellow forum members, whenever a far-right conspiracy theorist like Dejan speaks of the following, what they actually mean is this:
When they say “nazi”, they mean “anti-Russian”
When they say “denazification” they mean “Russification” aka “genocide”
When they say “anti-fascist” or “anti-nazi” they mean “Russian”
When they say “genocide” they mean absolutely nothing, just throwing this word in for good measure
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It is very sad that West has degenerated so badly and so quickly.
we yet realize that America’s leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.
How many wars, how many dictators installed, how many countries in ruins since then?
Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.
Oh, the arrogance, the lack of comprehension, the lack of readiness to self-sacrifice, …
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
Not a potential any more, but a harsh reality - government owned by corporations, lobby groups in conjunction with manipulative media.
We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Another failure - “knowledgeable citizenry” is few and far apart, education standards sacrificed for profit and entertainment value.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society’s future, we – you and I, and our government – must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
Oh, how badly democracy has failed in this task too - plundering by selfish, self-centered few for ease and convenience.
Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect. Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
What happened to the trust and mutual respect? Where did confederation of equals got lost? How did we get to exceptionalism and “golden billion”?
Interestingly, that confederation of the equals and mutual trust and respect is offered by Russia and China through BRICS, Shanghai Cooperation Organization and abandonment of dollar domination.
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I have read comments on this thread over many months and it reminds me of a tug-of-war in which one side or the other is working hard to convince outsiders of their viewpoint.
When history is ultimately viewed objectively after many decades of study, we can more clearly understand how humans acted and reacted to specific situations and conditions. Importantly, understanding does not mean agreement or disagreement of the history and associated human behavior, but it provides a means to improve ourselves as we continue the chain of life on this great Earth.
I have had the opportunity to travel to many parts of the world and experience cultures far different from my own. I have found people regardless of their country or culture are like me—a man or woman who is a husband, wife, father, mother, son, daughter, uncle, aunt—an extended family who love and care for each other.
During my travels, I have met “leftover “ women in China who will never enjoy life as a wife or mother and Cubans fearful of being watched and reported to the government for so-called improper behavior when feeding their families and worshipping God.
It is these life experiences that help me see how fortunate I am to live in a free country. However, we are often reminded that this freedom has come at a high cost. The United States may not be the perfect country I and many others desire and expect, but it is the one in which I am a citizen and I shall exercise my responsibilities to make it better for all.
The US system of government is slow, clunky, and often has extreme highs and lows, but it has gained the respect of all who visit or emigrate to become citizens. We are currently in a low period and now is the time for our generation to wakeup and standup for freedom whatever the cost. We are a resilient people with a rich history from all of the world’s people and “We The People” will prevail over any internal or external enemy because we are guided by the principles embedded within the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution. To that end and as the Declaration states, “We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”
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Americans always do the right thing… after all the other options have been exhausted. Which just makes you human.