The valiant Defenders of Ukraine

It seems that one rule of war that holds true is you can never produce enough for everything. I hear reports that western countries are running short on various supplies to send. Not sure how much is true but NATO readiness reports aren’t exactly going to be published same as the Ruskies won’t tell us what they are short on.

But yes I have also seen claims that many ammunition dumps and command centers have been targeted. Makes sense

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Canada has very little in the way of armaments that it can give as successive governments have squandered the Canadian military quite a bit without meaningful buildup. Sad but true.

Even the mighty US has run low on some stocks but not enough to affect them militarily.

Most NATO countries are in worse shape than Canada due to their relatively small militaries and smaller budgets.

On the plus side war is good for business for armament makers throughout the world including Canada’s small but impressive industry. Business is booming

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I’ll quibble with that one. I recently applied for a job relatled to mumitions procurement in Canada. I am also in a trade union with members who make munitions for the Canadian Military. The Government of Canada has a “strategic supplier” program for small-arms ammunition, artillery shells and other unguided munitions. They maintain a network of domestic manufacturers to to supply all Canadian requirements for these items domestically. Often these result in single-supplier situations but that cant be helped based on volume.

It is easier than you think to divert some planned production to Ukraine and ask manufactuers fir overtime. That’s why this system exists.

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Information and grief from Austria:

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fascism = Nazism = liberal hegemony

All the same framework.

Christian conservatives throughout history have killed more people than any other group or ideology has.

It will surprise no one that aggressive warmonger Putin is a christian conservative.

Oh, do you know which country really has a large neo nazi problem? Russia!

Which is interesting since in 1939 the Soviets made a deal with Nazi Germany (where christian conservatives from Prussia had helped Hitler to power because he promised to destroy everything leftist) so they could invade Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Moldova. Only they made a slight miscalculation about whom they were making deals with.

I’ve never understood neo nazis in Poland, Ukraine or Russia because had their hero Adolf won the war there wouldn’t have been a place for any of them in the new order, except as slaves. So maybe they’re masochists?

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Deal was signed in Moscow on 23 August 1939, hardly a week before start of WWII and was the last one, after all European powers already signed various agreements with Hitler. That includes:

  • The Anglo-German Naval Agreement (AGNA) of 18 June 1935
  • The Four-Power Pact, also known as the Quadripartite Agreement, was an international treaty between Britain, France, Italy, and Nazi Germany that was initialled on 7 June 1933 and signed on 15 July 1933
  • The Reichskonkordat (“Concordat between the Holy See and the German Reich[1]) is a treaty negotiated between the Vatican and the emergent Nazi Germany. It was signed on 20 July 1933
  • The German–Polish declaration of non-aggression signed on 26 January 1934
  • The Munich Agreement was an agreement concluded at Munich on 30 September 1938, by Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and Italy. It provided “cession to Germany of the Sudeten German territory” of Czechoslovakia,
  • The Anschluss of Austria, following a plebiscite
  • The German-Romanian Treaty for the Development of Economic Relations between the Two Countries was a bilateral economic agreement signed between the German and the Romanian governments in Bucharest on 23 March 1939.
  • The German–Estonian Non-Aggression Pact was signed on June 7, 1939
  • The German–Latvian Non-Aggression Pact was signed on June 7, 1939.

Add to that The *Anti-Comintern Pact, officially the Agreement against the Communist International between Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan, signed on 25 November 1936

Soviets knew very well that Hitler is no their friend. They needed a time and a land buffer.

On the other hand, Britain was quite friendly with Nazis:

The British establishment – centre-right – and the more extreme right-wing parties saw Hitler’s Germany not just as a strong nation which could cripple communism once and for all, but also as a country they could possibly ally with, or at least encourage to attack the home of communism with some tacit support.
The British right viewed the French military as backward, with their tactics aimed at fighting a war they almost lost nearly twenty years ago. They saw the real enemies of Britain and her empire as the USSR and Japan, and with America constantly purveying a policy of isolation, a number of British politicians and influential public figures saw a strong, militaristic Germany as a potential ally to curb the communist threat to the Empire.
In March 1935 a lunch was organised in the British Embassy in Berlin. Hitler was invited and he met the Foreign Minister, Sir John Simon and the man who was to be his successor, Anthony Eden who at the time had the title ‘Minister without Portfolio for League of Nations Affairs’. It was a highly successful meeting, with Hitler and Eden actually discussing the Battle of Ypres in which they both took part and in fact were roughly opposite each other in their respective trenches. Both men felt that they could work together after their preliminary talks and Hitler was pleased to hear that Eden was made Foreign Secretary a few months later.
In June the same year the Anglo-German Naval Agreement was signed. This not only broke the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles and was negotiated by the British without any consultation with either the French or the Italians, but was viewed by the Nazis as Britain’s first move to a formal alliance against Russia and France. During the war the British claimed it was a part of their appeasement policy, but many German officials claimed that there were clauses that were anti-Soviet and that Britain would come to the aid of Germany, if she was attacked by the communist state.
Friendly relations continued between the two countries the next year with former prime minister David Lloyd George visiting the Fuhrer at his Bavarian retreat in September 1936. Lloyd George was very impressed with the very pro-English Hitler. He claimed that, “Germany does not want war and she is afraid of an attack by Russia”, something that many British politicians were also concerned about. He practically apologised for the First World War and said, “There is a profound desire that the tragic circumstances of 1914 should never be repeated”.
This was music to Hitler’s ears. More than anything else he dreamed of an alliance with Saxon England. A nation, he believed, that was made up of and run by people of “excellent Germanic stock”. He was not too sure about the Celtic races that made up the rest of Britain though, and always referred to the UK as “England”. Hitler proclaimed that, “the English nation will have to be considered the most valuable ally in the world”. He added, “England was a natural ally for Germany and an enemy of France”, plus the latter’s communist friends in Russia, no doubt. Relations became even more cordial with the Fuhrer, referring to ‘Mein Kampf’ and other publications of his, when he asserted that the English are, “our brothers, why fight our brothers?”. Anglo-Nazi Pact in the 1930’s? - Historic UK

Interesting how history repeats. Specially by those with selective memory (and/or poor education).

Yes, I see your argument: ‘liberal hegemony’ is ‘nazi’. Ukraine receives support from ‘liberal’ hegemon, thus Ukraine is Nazi. Good to see your still trying to prove your retarded point.

Funny how you think that throwing around a pointless list is a counterargument without actually saying your argument. Instead, you just leave it to us to infer what would be your point and then when it sounds bad you just say “but I wasn’t really saying that, I was saying [insert other pointless event here]” but never standing up for your true believes. It’s a classic method for far-right arguments. Hence, you are a fascist

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A report of German soldiers which have been stealing supplies to blow up the Krim bridge.They have been caught by German authorities.

Sounds “fun” but rogue actions against Russian bridges might lead to massive escalations. Also in view of the latest extreme right scandals in the German Army one can have questions at the way they control them. Well good work with capturing them.

See below

Bundeswehrsoldaten planten Sprengung der Krim-Brücke (rnd.de)

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As Indie often says, history doesn’t happen in vacuum - context is important. Western history revisionists trying to equate Nazis with Soviets because of one agreement those two had, and taken out of overall context.

So, just providing a context for those who are interested and capable of going beyond official narratives/propaganda.

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Hey side question….talks about training Ukrainian pilots. On f15/f16’s. How long for a trained pilot to become proficient on a new model airplane?

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It would take at least 16 to 18 months to train a Ukrainian pilot to use a western aircraft like the F16 to minimum training standards due to the differences in Soviet technology to western tech basically they can fly the plane but to learn to use the associated tech would take a long time to understand and assimilate.

Western pilots take roughly 20 to 24 months to reach minimum proficiency without prior fighter jet training.

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Thank you. My gut reaction was train em or not, it would make no practical difference for a long time. The only way it would matter is if they got volunteer pilots from the west and I don’t see that happening. A modern day flying tigers :grinning:

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Latest information

It has been independently confirmed that the Himars and associated medium range weaponry has made a definite impact of Russian supply and logistics. The big question is how much of an impact has been made. It is known that in the short term Russian artillery has been hit hard with huge stores of shells that have been destroyed or damaged but no one really knows how long the impact will last.

More immediately from various captured Russian servicemen and cell phone and radio intercepts that food, clothing and toiletries have severely impacted in several sections of the lines due to supply depots being damaged or destroyed which has impacted morale in those affected areas quite a bit.

Latest estimates from various sources put the total number of Russian casualties at around 110,000 plus or minus 10,000. Total Ukrainian casualties are estimated to be at 34,000 plus or minus 7,000.

Russian military capabilities are heavily depleted in Western Russia it is thought only about 30% of their front line troops are now combat effective and most of those are in military bases facing NATO countries.

Currently it will take Russia approximately 4-7 years to replenish their armoured vehicles including tanks and up to 15 years to train enough people to operate them again. It is thought that currently Russia’s total military strength is at 55% of what it started the war with.

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Some of that doesn’t make sense.

4-7 years to replace armored vehicles certainly make sense as vehicle repair and upgrades seem very slow even in the west. I imagine that many vehicles are damaged and will be used for spare parts. The way it goes.

Given that Russia runs a conscript army, how would it take 15 years to train a new batch of troops? I’m assuming they did not send all the trainers who run their armored schools and get them killed.

Finally, casualties counts seem vague. Yes high Russian casualties make sense considering they are always attacking and a lot of urban fighting. I think they should separate the Russian casualties from their Allies in Ukraine. I have read they are using as many Ukrainian troops as possible and have implemented drafts in both republics. They use of troops as cannon fodder certainly isn’t new.

Do you believe the Ukrainian casualties estimates? I have heard them 500 plus daily in the recent months. Again not sure what I trust.

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The discepancy seems to be how to replenish the higher ranks and technical specialists, the ones who require years of training. Conscripts are easily replaceable, their trainers are not.

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Edit*** the figures I have posted go up and down each and every time. The British Intelligence service seems to be the most accurate when it comes to estimating casualties whereas the US under estimates and Ukrainians over estimate and the British tend to be middle of the road. As I’ve already stated we may never know the true amount of Dead, wounded, missing and others due to many factors but one thing is clear both countries have taken significant amounts of casualties however the Ukrainians are faring far better than the Russians due in part to better training, better equipment and higher morale.


I have broken down casualty numbers in prior posts but they are all estimates as nobody really knows the true number due to on the Russian side they refuse to admit to more than 1800 dead and have not officially admitted to how many wounded they have so estimates have to be made.

Latest figures for Russian casualties(estimates) based on figures released by British intelligence (week ofJuly 4th)

Dead 28-33,000
Wounded 70-80,000
MIA-POW 10-14,000

On the Ukrainian side while they have been more open about casualty rates they also have not been forthcoming with figures

Dead 9-11,000
Wounded 28-33,000
MIA-POW 10-15,000

We may never know the true extent of casualties on both sides but Russia has gone a step further to destroy evidence of death by burning as many dead Russians as possible with mobile crematoriums, burying the dead in unmarked mass graves and if rumours are true destroying records of conscripts to say they were never in the military.

This is a unique war in that two modern militaries are engaged one based on Soviet era training and equipment the other having western training using Soviet era equipment to great effect, access to western weaponry and even more western style training all of which has proven very effective against Russian tactics.

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Not so good news, anyone who can check veracity Scandal: Ukraine sells military equipment donated by NATO countries​ - Modern Diplomacy

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It’s disheartening to hear but at the same time it is understandable as Ukraine is still plagued by corruption and scandals and is listed as the most corrupt European nation after Russia and there are people out there who want to make a quick buck.

With that being said hundreds of people in positions of authority have been removed due to corruption yet it has only made a small dent so far. Add to that there are dozens of different ethnicities who pledge allegiance to Russia over Ukraine and now you have a melting pot that boils over regularly and how do you deal with that.

Also keep in mind Ukraine is very divisive as western Ukraine is way different than eastern Ukraine and southern Ukraine is way different than east, west and northern Ukraine. Add to that many people still are loyal to the old Soviet Union and now Russia.

With all that happening it’s a miracle that more weapons haven’t been sold.

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Patriotism is nice but business is business and won’t be interfered with. Stuff will be sold that shouldn’t. Banned items have turned up in Russian equipment and I’m sure that for every sanction issued, someone is bypassing it. It’s life.

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