The valiant Defenders of Ukraine

Non existent outside Russian disinformation.

Well, an analysis of downed Russian missiles and weapons shows they are all guided using western technology. :wink:

The US House of Representatives has approved the Ukraine Lend-Lease Bill. It now goes to the US President.

70 years after the original programme, it’s back.

Putin really should have consulted Zhukov’s memoirs before he started this.

Even then, it can’t be even close to strategic importance of Ukraine’s neutrality for Russia. Or China’s South and East Seas for China for that matter.

China already owns Port Darwin, airport in Western Australia and many other strategic assets in Australia.

China doesn’t pose a threat for Australia because it doesn’t have expansionist ambitions. It’s priorities are improving living conditions with of their own citizens and spreading trade and business ties with whoever is interested - that is why it builds infrastructure throughout the world.

But China will not forget Opium Wars and all that followed, as well as humiliation of having its Embassy in Yugoslavia bombed by NATO. It will not allow that repeating.

Georgia was very much part of Russian Empire, for more than a century before becoming part of Soviet Union.
Ukraine, as we know, was birthplace of Russia.
Russia has always been multicultural land/empire, so calling its parts “occupied” is example of western cultural limitations in understanding of how other parts of the world function.

Components, American Components, Russian Components, All Made In Taiwan

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Yea, we live in a integrated global world where we should be partners and friends. And trying to beat another country into becoming your friend simply dosent work and will get the opposit effect. Sorry, but someone should tell Mr. Putin. Did you notice that Putin have called Taiwan an unfriendly country :slight_smile: Now he’s up for some spanking in China

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I am perfectly aware of how that works and how to be critical of it. As I stated before, your entire line of reasoning is US and EU bad, so Russia must be good.
Also, I think it is interesting how you are not agitating against democracy anymore, but against hegemony. Quite the turn around from this:

Scott Morrison is a liar, a cheat and a terrible leader. I would not trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

That said, if you oppose US hegemony and militarism with all it’s bases around the world, then you should naturally be opposed when China does the same. You can’t defend it from the idea that it’s allowed because they are the underdog. If you’re opposed to it in principle, you should oppose every form of it.

Ah yes, the Russian empire. That sounds kinda hypocritical from a man ‘opposed’ to imperialism.

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I saw what you did here. Most people I know looked down on Armageddon but I loved that movie and Peter Stormare was one of the best characters!

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Again, not a criticism. Simple observation. And as such it could be used for understanding why hegemonic implementation of particular type of democracy also known as “liberal democracy” deserves to be opposed.

And it would appear that most of the world has similar view.

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In favour of what I might ask? If a more social meritocratic democracy is your answer, count me in. If it is populism and authoritarianism, count me out.

What similar view? That the west is to blaim for the war in Ukraine? The article seems to suggest so, but really it only states that most countries have not sanctioned Russia. They have however not exactly come out in support of Russia either. Whenever votes were brought to the UN, most of these nations preferred to abstain rather than throw their weight behind Russia. This is more of a signal of that they don’t care about Ukraine, or at least not enough to hurt their own economies with sanctions like the west has done. Some of these may be sympathetic to Russia, but they may as well be sympathetic to Ukraine. Just a few examples of nations that have not imposed sanctions:

  • Turkey: Turkey has not imposed sanctions against Russia, but it did close the Bosporus straits to warships, mostly disfavouring Russia. It is also the supplier of the now infamous Bayraktar drones to Ukraine.
  • Israel: Israel has not imposed sanctions against Ukraine and is generally on friendly terms with both nations. The public is mostly supportive of Ukraine in the conflict though and its government has send non-lethal aid, trying to thread a careful balance. It has however lashed out quite vigorously against Lavrov’s anti-semtic statements this weekend.

These are just two examples where not imposing sanctions is not quite the same as supporting Russia. Most other countries are either split on what is the best course of action or don’t care too much at all. Some sympthatize with Russia, others don’t. Imposing sanctions is not a black and white issue and has the tendency to hurt yourself just as much. Most don’t impose sanctions because they don’t want to risk backlash and economic instability at home, not because they oppose western hegemony and ‘liberal democracy’. Sure they may still oppose that, but that doesn’t seem to make them supportive of either one or the other. Most nations just prefer to emphasize neutrality and play both sides.

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This article is also heavily colored and at best loosely based on facts.

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Then you should definitely check out the director’s masterpiece Pearl Harbor. I have heard the critics cried while watching the movie (probably because the movie was so good… they felt they were in Pearl Harbor).

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I liked that movie because I’m a history nut and pointing out the errors in schlock gives it an extra layer of enjoyment.

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I have seen Tora Tora Tora many times. I don’t think I made it all the way through Pearl Harbor. One is good and one just bores me.

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There are few more events around the world, some mentioned in that article, others just being observed.
It i snot only about sanctions, it is generals resistance to western dictate, rejection of western narrative by most of the world, from Russia, China, India, South Africa (and most of Africa), Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, to smaller nations like Emirates, Mali, Solomon Islands. Wold is sick and tired of being treated like children, preached by powerful but ignorant hegemonic elite and its bloodsucking deputies.

It is clear that western hegemony is coming to an end. First slow and then faster. It is not about winning or losing, its about letting other people be.

Sure, you might not want to see it, it’s perfectly okay.

When someone is pretending to know nothing about some unpleasant fact, or acting aloof, or intentionally being unresponsive to avoid some unpleasant duty, we say “pravi se Englez”, which literally translates to “he’s pretending to be an Englishman.”

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Again, not much in terms of good arguments. You’re just expressing your animosity with the west. It blinds you into seeing things that do not exist.

And don’t be illuded that when the west’s hegemony is shattered, it will not be replaced by another. All you do is preach blind hatred, but you give very little in terms of what we should strife for instead. If anybody is pretending to be an Englishman, it’s you.

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Let me see - I was referring to certain aspects of western culture and policies felt by the rest of the world, like

I was also clear that I am not against west doing whatever they want to their own subjects, just against forcing it’s values on others

So, no hatred from my side, whatsoever. I am westerner and who lived, experienced other options that seem to work better for other people. In either case, it is about communication and learning from each other - not a competition and destroying those who have different preferences.

Western “exceptionalism” is, ultimately racism, very close to Nazism. My grandfather and father fought against that. Grandfather never came back from that fight, my father joined when he was fourteen. It is sad that their sacrifice is disrespected while Nazism is on the march again.

Glory to those who fought it in WWII.

No, Russia invaded those countries to conquer territory and push towards warm water ports.

So you’re arguing against western exceptionalism which is just a broad theme and on which you don’t really give any concrete pointers, so it’s hard to disagree with. I also can’t argue with your feelings being wrong, because they are just your feelings.

May I remind you that that was not the discussion we embarked on. You started this discussion with statements that the west is ultimately to blame for the war in Ukraine. There is a very clear reason for the war in Ukraine and that is the man sitting in the Kremlin. Russia is the agressor in this war. Things like “but the west is just as bad” or “it was necessary, because they were forced to” don’t mean anything, because they started it and nobody else.

From the October 1st 1946 judgement in the Nuremburg Trials:

The charges in the Indictment that the defendants planned and waged aggressive
wars are charges of the utmost gravity. War is essentially an evil thing. Its
consequences are not confined to the belligerent States alone, but affect the whole
world.
To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the
supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains
within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.

As cosigned by justices of The United States of America, The French Republic, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

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