I do not want to sound rude or anything like that. But I guess I’ll power through it anyway.
I am genuinely curious why some Americans in particular have this notion that
- The nazis were socialist not fascist.
- (I had a heated debate with one last night about this) that fascism is in some way left wing.
It honestly baffles me. I thought this was all general knowledge but I’ve had no less than 5 Americans all seemingly republican supporters (again something I don’t understand why that is relevant) refuse to accept it.
Again I’m not trying to be rude or anything but It’s happened repeatedly online and I just can’t fathom it and I’m sick of being called a “beta soyboy” or “sheeple” for it.
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While you may or may not agree his conclusions there is a series of videos by TIK which i think demonstrate the complexity of the matter fairly well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlXqFgqOviw (~20 min video “National Socialism WAS Socialism”), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06vJY9nLMXU (~1 h video "A short history of Mussolini and Fascism, and even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8 (~5 h video “Hitler’s Socialism”), and more… They are all lengthy videos but he does provide sources and most of the videos are actually about building the case and showing the evidence.
The very short version appears to be that most people equate term ‘socialism’ with what is apparently actually meant with ‘marxist socialism’. Instead socialism can (and indeed has) come in many different flavors. One of them being ‘national socialism’. And it may actually be surprisingly similar to what ‘marxist socialism’ was, it is worth keeping in mind that for example fair number of original Italian fascists did begin as parts of the anarchist or socialist movement (or even marxist/communist), and while they did set out to a separate course later on they did not revert the direction altogether.
In other words the birth of nationalist, socialist and fascist movements that played so large role in the 20th century is a far more complex and nuanced matter than what is usually presented and great care should be used when reading, let alone presenting anything, about it.
So it sort of comes down to how you choose to define the terms. If you choose to go by the actual definitions then (1) is true and (2) is true. If you choose to go by the terms how they are often depicted in modern usage of the terms then it becomes muddled and the answers to both could easily be ‘false’. It is worth noting that if they are such or if they are not such does not redeem those ideologies in any way.
That being said it is wrong for any one to insult you because of your views regardless if they agree or disagree with your point of view.
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A really good answer already has been given by wanderer. I think one of the problems is "oversimplification " what is in a definition.
For one “left to right” is incredibly broad. Someone can be for a great environment (is that left?) and say for lower taxes(is that right?). I think most people are somewhat on both sides of the spectrum and when something works it works.
As for definitions, “Socialists” are used by tons of regimes and the party NSDAP name stood for Nationalist Socialist Deutsche (=German) Arbeiter (=Labour) Party. I think only the last word of this is uncontested.
It is utterly ridiculous that any other “Labour party” is comparable to the NSDAP because it has “Labour in the title”.
Actually a lot of “Socialist” parties used wording like “Labour Party” UK/NL or Social Democrats (Netherlands earlier).
Sadly we did and do live in a World were people are labelled “sheeple”/fascist etc etc etc for nothing coming up with these names just served the purpose of attacking the other side. IRL I would say, can you define what according to you is a list of things “Socialists is and do”. A sort of working definition. If he has 10 things that constitute that decision you can point out that it doesn’t match whatever the Socialists you support do and think.
The latter works in IRL and a cup of coffee not in Twitterland were people go as extreme as possible. IRL mostly when I discuss with people with other views we seem to at least understand were the other is coming from and often agree that on “our side” there are some minuspoints as well. If this makes sense!
Good luck discussing and great question.
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Definitely concur with your assessment there, @Chewbacca.
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