Prigozhin’s march on Moscow

Guderian definitely got closer he was actually close enough to shell the Kremlin but never did. Guderian was doomed due to interference from high command. The city was literally his for the taking but high command had different ideas.

Prigozhin either got within 180km or 240km of the suburbs of Moscow depending on who is telling the story. While it is highly likely Wagner forces could penetrated deep into Moscow it is likely his forces would have eventually been stopped. But we will never know for sure.

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Source: A wehraboo you met once.

And Wagner got way closer than Guderian ever did lol.

Heinz Guderian was a lying Nazi war criminal.

Yeah he definitely was, not denying that, but I am saying that this person got his “information” from A wehraboo he met once.

Maby I have misunderstood the meaning of this word. I thought it is describing a person who fancies only nazi tecnology.

I used to think he was a standup general. How much he lied is hard to prove as his most likely critics were conveniently deceased. But I think he should never have commanded more than a handful of Panzer divisions and he clearly lied in his cooperating with Nazi atrocities. That is the ultimate black mark I give him.

My lesson I learned is not to look with stars on anyone who has so much power. They seek the power and do awful things to keep it. They are also manipulated by stroking their egos. True of Allie’s just as much.

It is easy for German historians:

(this is about his role in the history of the “Panzer”)

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Well took a lot to go through the subtitles but it pretty much ripped up the myth of Tank development. Thank you

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Sorry you got that backwards German Forces got to within 24km of the Kremlin while at best Wagner forces got within 180km of the Kremlin

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“Then, on December 5, Siberian troops—transferred from the Chinese frontier—attacked, many wearing the snow camouflage that the Germans would learn to fear.”

Snow is some white stuff, Germans have never seen before 1941, not even in 1812.

No, I don’t think that’s true.

And German High Command:tm: wasn’t the reason that the Nazi General wasn’t able to take Moscow.

You are sadly not correct. The Germans did get that close before retreating after the Soviets counterattacked in Dec 1941. 119 - Winter is Here! The failure of Barbarossa - WW2 - December 5, 1941 - YouTube link to there episode of that week

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Fine, but he’s still wrong on Nazi High Command:tm: preventing the taking of Moscow.

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If the German high command had said take Moscow in August the I think it could have been taken. They decided there were higher priorities like going south and winning a huge victory there. Right or wrong, we will never know. Then came rains mud and delays.

By the time the final campaign for Moscow began imho there was 0% chance of seizing the city. Guderian got with 12 miles of the Kremlin and that was it. He was pushed back and winter hit hard.

So was this high command? Yes but Hitler never valued Moscow over all else.

No, Guderian was commanding only 2nd Panzergroup 150 km in the south. He made himself after the war the victim of Hitler, the weather and everything. He and Rommel got help by this Brtish Gentelman:

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Point taken. I was wrong.

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Wagner is now in Minsk, latest word out from Lukachenko is Wagner wants to attack west into Poland. Personally I think it is more propaganda. Poland is not taking any chances and they are deploying troops on the Belarus border. I don’t think this is more talk than actual threat of escalation.

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Apparently lots of Polish civilians got pictures of Belarussian helicopters over Poland yesterday. Not sure what it means other than stupidity because comparison of forces says attacking Poland is madness