How long could the USSR have held out without aid from the Allies?

How long could the USSR have held out without aid from the Allies? Thanks and stay safe

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After the successful German invasion and total inhalation of several armies ussr did not have enough of anything like tanks, planes or even food. since Siberia was not (and still not) developed, Caucuses basically rebelled so it was very hard to get anything through there. Americans supplied tanks, planes even cars, for example, when soviets would be occupying Vilnius all the tanks were American or British.

However, ussr had a lot of people, a tactic which they used in any war, throwing people at the enemy. And they had a lot of territory, so they could retreat endlessly. German allies like Romania, Finland etc, were not really interested in massive land control. It would be possible that Turkey and Japan could join in, but this already leaves in to “what if” area.

Of course, Germans could establish some states like they helped locals do in Belarus (Zuev Republic) and Bryansk (Lokot Autonomy). Free Cossack Don would most likely be a puppet state with Krasnov at the head of it, but they would not cover the full territory of ussr and Ukrainians were fighting against Germans at the time already.

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@White_Cossack

Can you provide any links about the Caucuses (quasi) rebellion? Also, I’m going out on a limb but with your handle and name of Segei, are you Russian? Cause I’m wondering if you know of any sources that talk about what Stalin might have done if say Hitler went through Turkey, took Iraq and tried to get military access through Iran (or even have Iran join the access so they could nationalize their Britsh owned oil fields), so as to put pressure on British India maybe inspiring rebellion there?

Speculation, not good speculation I keep hearing from others is that Stalin would immediately declare war if the Germans but from Indy there was talk of the Soviets possibly invading India if Middle East Command Collapsed. Could it have been that for one summer of evil love, the Soviets would have acively joined the war against the Allies to get a foothold in Inida and complete the Great Game?

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As you know many regions in ussr hated communists and Stalin. When German army south turned to caucuses locals would welcome them. Germans formed several divisions from Armenians, Azeri and Georgians. Chechens and Ingush Would actually have their own divisions, local population welcomed Germans. They were in mountain war against Soviet’s for long time. Their last rebel would be shot only in 1965 if I am correct. As later it demonstrated soviets were not able to go through with Afghanistan and were defeated there by locals. So again speculation on India is speculating

I am Cossack :wink:

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@White_Cossack

I would hope I could find an English Speaking source on all that to learn it’s full context. It sounds tragic and awful, but anything connected with the USSR is.

Honest question, I’m trying to plot an alternative history where I have an alternate Valkerie, but the war goes very differently in a couple of places so they can actually make peace without surrender…barely. How obsessed were Stalin and the Communist leadership in getting the Cossacks the Russian Liberation Army and Soviet POWs back into Soviet hands? Cause my guy would want to basically shield his Russian allies from deportation, and assign a part in the treaty that surviving Red Army POWs were not to be mistreated upon return to the Soviet Union. I know that doesn’t sound very much like what a German Officer would actually demand, but these guys are totally horrified by what Hitler’s done and they want to try and salvage as much as they can for everyone.

Like would Stalin at some point just say, fine, fuck you, you can have the ‘defeatists and defectors’ or would the repatriation for punishment thing be non-negotiable? Certainly, the Cossacks would be shot, but I’m talking just the Red Army POWs

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Well here are some sources to start. Hitler thought of Georgians as Aryians for example.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aserbaidschanische_Legion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenische_Legion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgische_Legion_(1941%E2%80%9345)

Basically communist propaganda at that point turned the brainwashed population to hatred of Germans. Which caused massive rapes (up to 2 million German women were raped by red army) if you were the pow and you would be “liberated” by the soviets you were sent straight to gulag. So the pows would be definitely given out. As for Russian and etc. units. Stalin was bent on turning them in. As you may know Von Pannwitz was executed with Cossack generals as traitor to the soviet motherland… they sent special repatriation units ftp bring in anyone they could. Lichtenstein told them to piss of. So it depends on the country. USA would not give out Cossacks for example.

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@White_Cossack

Please, by all means, do you have a link on my countrymen doing something in 1945 NOT to suck up to Stalin? I’m shocked the American foreign policy establishment would do anything disservice the “noble experiment.”

Well here is it complicated. You see ussr would “liberate” concentration camps and keep British and American pow under slow extradition until allies would give up Russians and etc who fought against ussr and also all liberated soviet pows. Many soviet pows did not want to go back to ussr, but they had to because of Yalta agreement. British straight out did not care and would give out children, women and elderly. Look up Cossack betrayal in Lienz, when British beat children and elderly Cossacks with clubs and bayonets because they did not want to go to soviets.

American however would not give out as many, ROA (KONR) were all given out, soviets would execute most of them the next day after giving out. Cossacks on the other hand who left through mountain to Italy and then surrendered to USA were not given out, they still live in the US (about 8 thousand of them) and there is Cossack village actually in called New Kuban in New Jersey. US was also the only country that did not pressure Lichtenstein to give up 1st Russian Army and would visit Smislovsky and ask him if he would be interested to work with them. Smislovsky would decline because US could not guarantee his men freedom.

Also, USA would not give out former white immigrants, so people like Turkul or Denikin were not given out. USA also would not give out any Balts and Ukrainians like Bandera. they all lived either in US controlled zone or immigrated to US after the war.

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@White_Cossack

Well that’s basically the only good news to come out of 1945 other than Hitler shooting himself, but that was like most late war German efforts, too little too late.

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Here is the short video about New Kuban and the Cossack museum there. https://youtu.be/6dGRwhF9v7c

If you are lucky you can actually meet the veterans of WW2 there. The current ataman of Cossacks outside of Russia Alexandr Pevnev. He is a veteran on WW2 as a boy he fought the communists. At the night before Cossack betrayal he and his family left Lienz through the mountains on horseback and surrendered to Americans in Italy. They immigrated to USA and lived there ever since preserving our history. As far as I remember his children served in US army, but I am not certain about it. https://www.golos-ameriki.ru/a/last-ataman-new-jersey/4357718.html?fbclid=IwAR1X-lsTk606Oe_IMBfFE10vNg4-OJlrZn-QcTD_zlL_kpzTBN429Cq7d3o

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