Hello all. If Spain had allowed Germany to attack Gibraltar would this have caused the Allies to want to invade Spain? And if Germany had invaded and taken Gibraltar how do you think this would have altered the course of WWII?
Spain was depending on American oil import, and US told Spain that we deliver only as much oil as Uk will allow. So Spain knew the oil would go, if Gibraltar was attacked by either Germany and Spain. But the possibility was considered. And the chance that Germany could be the new main oil suppler: 0 - So Spain was oil blackmailed to stay out of ww2, but was also Exhausted after their civil war. But Spain did provide troops for the eastern front - division Azul. Poor guys who was sent from sunny Spain to the russian freezer
Actually the Azul Division (Later Azul Legion) was made up of volunteers who went to fight the Soviets in support of Germany since the Germans had supported Franco in the Spanish Civil War. The Spanish soldiers gained a reputation from both the Germans and Soviets as highly effective soldiers in combat but who rarely took prisoners. After the first recall, the Azul Division became the Azul Legion, which was made up of Spanish soldiers who ignored the recall and wanted to continue fighting he Soviets.
I know why Spain sat out WWII, can someone please answer what you’d think would happen according to what I asked? Just wondering how you guys think this alternate scenario or two would play out.
A Spain exhausted and devestated after a brutal Civil War , after that blockaded from sea , with severed from oil , grain and fertiliser markets and could not reach any overseras loans from UK or US ? Just for capturing Gibraltar ? Days of Franco’s regime would be numbered then. Allies would have zero , nada interest to keep Spanish dictator and Falangists in power at Spain (Gibraltar or not , Allies would win the war though having Gibraltar eased British naval strategy tremendously) during and after the war and would probably agree and consent with Stalin’s demand in Yalta that Franco’s militarist Falangist goverment should be overthrown (if it was not toppled before since a lot of Spanish notables and generals in Franco’s goverment were in the pay of British secret service)
Aahh - good ansewrs, but not to the question asked.
i think the strategic value to Germany would be limited, as they could not hope to close maritime traffic to the Mediterranean only by holdning Gibraltar, and the British would know that.
In case it happend anyway, I think the british would have activacted the still active alliance with Portugal to put pressure on Spain, and included the recapture of Gribraltar in operation Torch. I think Spain would be only limited involved, maybe a landing near Gribraltar to cut it off, and make a land attack possible.
Interesting, that’s basically the whole reason I brought up Gibraltar and surely why the Germans wanted it. You don’t think the Germans occupying it would have closed off the Mediterranean from the West? At least for a time? A fully garrisoned Gibraltar with strong coastal batteries, hundreds of planes, and dozens of U-boats you’d think would have been a pain in the ass for the Allies to try to smash through or deal with. I thought the British owning Gibraltar made it a dangerous journey for German ships or U-boats to try and pass through the strait of Gibraltar. I don’t see why a German run Gibraltar wouldn’t have done the same thing to Allied forces…
I think if Germany took Gibraltar, then the Germans would definitely have a new forward operating base for U-boats in the Atlantic and a leg up in the Mediterranean. I’m sure the Allies would have made a landing to take it back during Operation Torch or something, but as far as Spain goes, Franco would have wanted to stay neutral and to try and avoid any kind of Allied landing on Spanish soil.
We can go about Spain in two ways, one they are invaded by the Allies and two Spain is not invaded but must probably pay some kind of debt back to the Allies. The first way it creates another front to send both German and Allied troops. It would also be terrible for the Allies because they also had North Africa and landing in Spain would drain resources from the North Africa Campaign. This is not a possibility that I would see occurring however. I see the second way being more realistic where Spain did something for the Axis and now has to do something for the Allies against the Axis.
So I would say if Germany took Gibraltar, the Atlantic War would have been prolonged a bit longer, and Spain would be in a worse position. Overall it wouldn’t really change the course of the war that much. There are a lot more possibilities with your question, but these are just some options that could have happened.
I’ve been to Gribraltar a lot, since I own an apartment in Spain nearby. Gribraltar is just a small rock with a few 5 inch guns and a very small airfield. It would never work as a U-boat base, as there are no land to build armoured pens. It was not Gribraltar but the British navy that could seal of the approach, and Germany simply did not have the naval assets. As a navy supply base and airstrip for flying in planes it could be transferred to Portugal.
But the symbolic value is enourmus, just ask Spain today. Germany could probaly take it, but they could surely not use it for anything, and the british would be so keen to take it back that it surely would be included in operation Torch.
And thats why it did not happend. Tempting symbolic value, as Stalingrad, but practical and logistical impossible. And even the Germans could make that conclusion.