The valiant Defenders of Ukraine

Stop thinking small! With Lend-Lease, Ukraine gets access to the entire US Military-Industrial Complex except for nuclear weapons.

It’s deliver now, pay later.

I’m thinking

  1. M1 Abrams tanks
  2. Stryker LAV vehicles
  3. M777 Howitzers
  4. Harpoon missles with truck launchers to make the Black Sea a Russian nightmare.
  5. F16 Fighter/Bombers with guided munitions and training.
  6. Enough ammunition to sustain a bombardmemt that would make Marshal Zhukov proud.
  7. Blackhawk helicopters with anti-tank missiles
  8. If feeling generous, Apache helicopters.

Through in food, fuel and spare parts. For a start.

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Small correction - spirit of Helsinki was destroyed in 1990s by recognition of unilateral separation of Croatia and Slovenia (later Bosnia) from Yugoslavia and later by NATO aggression on Yugoslavia and occupation of Kosovo and Metohija. That was a wake-up for Russia that friendly Europe, while good idea, is unlikely to escape imperial desires of Anglo rulers. US and UK have never abandoned idea of controlling East Europe as prerequisite of controlling “pivot area” of the World Island (EurAsia).

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That is something that bothered me from the beginning - size of Russian forces and alleged aims. In February figures were about 100k - 125k troops. And experts were claiming that that it was sufficient to occupy Ukraine. From what I have gathered from Indy’s stories of Barbarossa, and other sources - previous wars required about 10x more troops to fight and specially occupy the same territory, Ukraine.
So, is it Russian incompetence to plan for sufficient troops? Or, maybe they have other goal?

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Hi Dejan, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting a little different view. Please let me/us know should there be any queries.

Best Regards,
Marc/Chewie.

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I have been around and watching the Yugoslavian Wars unfolding day by day. This wars were not made by outsiders but by the people inside Yugoslavia. My idiots Dr Helmut Kohl “unconditional” supporting Kroatian nationalist was disgusting (because he was ignorant of any history, which few Serbs have been).
The “pivot area” is nonsense. The Anglo rulers just do not exist.

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I do not agree with that, Putin is a bully who wants everyone around him to do and say what he wants .
A large part of the Ukraine people want to have their freedom .
So far there is no perfect democracy but the most people living in a democracy have more freedom then those living autocratic or communistic countries.
And we should not shift the blame from the aggressor ( in this case Russia) to those wanting a better life for themself.

When the soviet union was strong the west did use them as the boogieman to frighten people to let them get away with things they would not get away with otherwise
Like a parent telling their kid to clean their room or Santa wont give you a present
Putin is using Nato as a boogieman to get his way.
Nato is a defence packt , if you attack one member you attack them all so that provides some
measure of safety to the members.( real or imaginary )
If a Nato member attacks someone the other members have no obligation to join in and that country would be on his own

There are no communistic countries, only autocratic ones that claim to be.

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Is it not autocratic to insist on countries implementing specific political and economic system (Neo-liberal)?

I have no illusion that Nato is a perfect system but it is the only one we have that has protected the west from the Soviet union in the past and now against the aggression of the madman in Russia
Just like democracy is not a perfect system but it is still better then living in a autocratic nation without any freedom
But it is still remains a defensive pact that has been hollowed out after the soviet union was broken up because a lot of people thought it was no longer needed.
At least now it is clear that it is still needed and the defence budget of countries will be adjusted for the coming years , hopefully it will be enough to at least get the militairy back up to a level needed to defend against aggression

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Aggression from whom?

No, Slovenia and Croatia were created bei Slovenians and Croatians. Insisting in 1992 that this countries had to be part of a Greater Serbia is the equivalent of the recognition of the “republics”.

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Yet, that was what destroyed principles and spirit of Helsinki - no unilateral changes of European borders.

Did you not hear that Russia has invaded Ukraine without any provocation , I would say that is a clear form of aggression from Russia.

Threatening to obtain nuclear weapons or join NATO is more than a provocation.

Russia has clearly expressed where the red lines are. It has explained it again in December last year. They explained that threats from Ukraine (either joining NATO or developing nuclear capabilities) present existential threat - equivalent of Cuban Missile Crisis for US.

In any case, events of past two decades as well as past few years didn’t do much to build trust of Russia. Country has suffered heavy loses every time it has trusted its western partners in the past.

No, it would not appear to be all Russian fault, if we want to be honest.

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In any case, point is that facts do not support claims that Russian actions against Ukraine are any different than some actions of NATO or other western powers in the past.

If we are interested in facts and the past?

No the blame for the war that started in 2014 is completely with Russia
The west has not helped much with their weak response and token help we provided Ukraine.
I think we should have been better neighbours in 2014 and give more real help.
The only fault of Ukraine was thinking they could get enough help from the west to stave of Russia.
The fault of the west was in trying to please Putin because he has money and power that turns on politicians and they were hoping to profit from it.
Now almost no politicians dare to bow down to Putin anymore because the people do not like Putin murdering the Ukraine people and in a democracy openly going against those who would vote for you is the road out of office.
Europe for a large part bought into the russian gas,oil and platinum , now they are looking to replace / reduce that and even when the war is over most likely that won’t return as it is shown to be a too great a risk.
It will cost the west a lot of money before this is all over but the pictures of the murdered civilians in Ukraine is a great motivation to do it.

All of this also hurts the Russian people and that is not a good thing as it is only their dictator that is to blame for all of this

And now Finland and Sweden also see that they are not safe as a neutral country and are talking of joining Nato.
I hope they will be able to complete their aplication to nato soon
This will most likely not something Putin wants but it is a direct result of his actions

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One country does not have the authority over the foreign policy. It is completely ridiculous that Russia would be able to tell Ukraine what to do and what not.

As for these threats, the threat of joining NATO was very unrealistic before 2014. Back then more people, especially in the eastern parts of Ukraine more as threat rather than protection (Gallup, march 2014). Popular sentiment for joining NATO only rose as Russia bullied Crimea into occupation and funded an insurgency in the eastern parts. Suddenly all the other Ukrainians started to realise Russia was more likely a threat than a friend. Without all this interference, both countries today would have likely still maintained warm relations.

As for the Nuclear threat? I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Ukraine didn’t have any (as it gave them back to Russia in accordance with the Budapest Memorandum) nor did it have plans to develop them by my knowledge, but feel free to prove me wrong.

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Ukraine’s mistake is that their oligarchs believed that Western oligarchs will accept them into their club.

Same as with Bosnia, Americans have promised them lot and then left them high and dry.

Russia only looks for safety for its people and respect of their civilization’s achievements.

Russia is only looking to resurrect a dead empire.

Russia has a Poremkin Army that nobody is afraid of anymore.

Ukraine did nothing and got a case of Vlad the Invader.

Western evonomic and military suppirt for Ukraine gas been considerable and once Lend-Lease is approved, hold on to your hats.

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I do not think Putin gives one F for the safety of the Russian people and even less about non Russians.
He and his toadies have been bleeding Russia for years with little regard for the people.
He is not alone in that regard , corruption can be found around the world , in most countries corruption that is that too much in the open is cut down as one does not want to anger the serfs to much.
But you are right in that politicians on all sides promise a lot and almost always fail to deliver on that promise .
I all walks of life there are good people and bad people.
The world is not black and white and good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things and I think that is why people love seeing the Ukrainian people stand against the Russian in a way that most people think they would also do as it is the heroic thing to do.
I think for years to come Ukrainians would be regarded as a very brave people