Spartacus, this question has been a deep one. Why did the Allies, especially America, did not do anything to combat racism in their armies?

[kingdynomite4456]

This has been a deep question and I wanted to make sure you and the crew was ok with talking about this topic. Thank you for answering this.

Sincerely,
A African American who had family who fought in WW2.

[NormanStewart]

They did, especially as the war progressed (or before it when you look at the U.S. Army).

I did a counter-post of sorts with the TimeGhost video. Agree or disagree, the sources I posted here are worth checking out:

Racism of the US Army - Fighting for Freedom? - WW2 Special

Disclaimer: I have discussed this video with a friend of mine and history buff from Georgia whom I shall call JD at his request and this is what we thought of the video. We thought it would be a neutral take on segregation in the United States. Little did we realize how disappointed we would be. I won’t be discussing minor mistakes, like his pronunciations of certain names, because the content matters more here. And at the end, I would suggest improvements to the video (this entire post should…

[kingdynomite4456]

But this leads to another question. From a non whitewashed perspective, just why? Why didn’t the White population in said Allied countries still continued with it, even if they knew it was affecting their own army morale? Why do something you know was contradicting, while calling out the Axis for war crimes on a apoplectic level? From a Black pov, I can’t think anything but just pure racism. I read everything and I appreciate it. But you also have to realize some things:

1. How did African American troops really feel? How did they describe the treatment? The rules, discipline etc?
2. Why did nobody listen to African/African American/Black voices over their peers? Why assume?
3. Why didn’t the Allies, most notably Britain and America, severely punished their white troops for said behaviors?

We can talk about how it happened (and I’d love to go into a historical talk). But I always ask myself first about how said community(ies) felt, reacted, how they dealt with it, etc. I like what you did tho. Just colonization and racism is really two things that should never get together.

[NormanStewart]

That’s actually an interesting question, though it may take a while to answer

[kingdynomite4456]

I do wish America back than could’ve seen how African Americans or poc was feeling about the wack treatments they was facing.

[NormanStewart]

They did. Reading primary sources and newspaper accounts from the '40s, you’d be surprised.

[kingdynomite4456]

True, I meant like, from a racial type point of view. Instead of like “well if the white man is right, their opinion matters more”. I remember (we’re gonna go back in time) that Ulysses Grant wanted to help former slaves. Why couldn’t FDR (or most importantly, Congress) ignored the deep racist parts of Congress (Southern Democrats or Dixiecrats)? Wow, guess that really is a deep question

[NormanStewart]

@kingdynomite4456

“well if the white man is right, their opinion matters more”

Not in that way, either.

[NormanStewart]

@kingdynomite4456

Why couldn’t FDR (or most importantly, Congress) ignored the deep racist parts of Congress (Southern Democrats or Dixiecrats)?

To oversimplify, political proclivities. Once again, it’s actually pretty complicated.

[kingdynomite4456]

I mean, he could’ve still achieve stuff without them right? Right?

[kingdynomite4456]

I was tryna put my best 40s social political voice their heh. I take blame for that

[NormanStewart]

Not exactly, from what I could figure out.

[kingdynomite4456]

So basically, ignore racists and lose getting bills passed or listen and risk backlash…

[NormanStewart]

That’s quite the biased way of looking at the '40s, my friend. May I suggest this editorial from 1941?

Man lynched by Florida mob (5-13-41)

The Pittsburgh Press (May 17, 1941) FAIR ENOUGH By Westbrook Pegler New York – According to the newspaper accounts, the lynching of a Negro in a little town in northwestern Florida a few nights ago was an episode which, for bestiality, could be matched only in cultural exercises of the super-race of Adolf Hitler. Suspected but not yet formally accused of criminal assault on a white child, the victim was roped to a tree, shot and left for dead, but crawled to a refuge and there was recaptu…

[NormanStewart]

This one, too (though this is more general than U.S.-specific):

Editorial: Racial barriers (6-23-42)

The Pittsburgh Press (June 23, 1942) [img] Racial barriers By Mrs. Walter Ferguson Pearl Buck, in a recent article in The New York Times Magazine, says: If racial barriers stand we must be prepared for nothing but struggle. Thus she uncovers what most of our people fear to see – the fact that Japan’s sweep through Pacific areas is due to a blood kinship with the conquered peoples. In most of the learned discussions about the behavior of India’s leaders, that vital point is missed. It …

[NormanStewart]

Once again, a little more complicated than that.

[kingdynomite4456]

1. I expected my home state, Florida, to be in a newspaper bit. I apologize for that. They don’t know how to act down here.

2. I… Actually never knew that part. Everything I’ve read about 40s sociopolitical standpoint in the 40s been whitewashed in history books.

3. I think I get it. So, in FDR eyes, if he ignored the racist base of the Democratic Party, he would, not only lose on legislation, but risk losing either the presidency, Congress, or both. (If that’s wrong too, I understand. I don’t wanna bore nobody with governmental terminology)

[NormanStewart]

@kingdynomite4456

I expected my home state, Florida, to be in a newspaper bit. I apologize for that. They don’t know how to act down here.

No need to. Don’t ever apologize for events you had no control over

@kingdynomite4456

Everything I’ve read about 40s sociopolitical standpoint in the 40s been whitewashed in history books.

I’d argue the entire history of the early-to-mid 20th century is not actually taught properly. Just not in the way the activists say it is.

@kingdynomite4456

I think I get it. So, in FDR eyes, if he ignored the racist base of the Democratic Party, he would, not only lose on legislation, but risk losing either the presidency, Congress, or both.

Pretty much that way, though it’s not just FDR being spineless. According to black newspapers in the '30s, he himself also put forth segregation policies when he was Assistant Secretary of the Navy during World War I.

[kingdynomite4456]

I mean if I was FDR, I’d risk it. I wouldn’t care about the names and stuff.

But that leads to a bigger question. Why not hire or least appointment Black or poc ppl to top government position? Couldn’t that, in the short term, pushed for harder changes?

[NormanStewart]

@kingdynomite4456

Why not hire or least appointment Black or poc ppl to top government position? Couldn’t that, in the short term, pushed for harder changes?

He did have a Black Cabinet of advisers in his administration. In fact, I discussed one of those advisers in that “racism in the U.S. Army” post I linked earlier.