Potsdam, August 1, 1945, 4 p.m.
Top secret
MR. BYRNES said they had taken up many questions in the Foreign Ministers meeting. He thought it would be helpful to take them up one at a time.
German Separations
MR. BYRNES read the report of the drafting committee on the protocol of [on?] German reparations. He said the question was whether the Big Three had yesterday reached agreement on reparations when the Soviet delegate had said that he would not press the Soviet claim to 30 percent of the German gold, foreign assets, and shares.
MR. STALIN inquired what was meant by the expression “western zones” in the document.
THE PRESIDENT said it meant the zones occupied by France, Great Britain, and the United States.
MR. STALIN suggested that they might reach agreement along the following lines. The Russians would not claim the gold which their Allies had found in Germany. With regard to shares and foreign investments, perhaps the demarcation line between the Soviet and western zones of occupation should be taken as the dividing line and everything west of that line would go to the Allies and everything east of that line to the Russians.
THE PRESIDENT inquired if he meant a line running from the Baltic to the Adriatic.
STALIN replied in the affirmative and said that with respect to foreign investments, all investments in Europe west of this line would go to the Allies and all investments in Eastern Europe to the Russians. He said that for example German investments in Rumania and Hungary would fall to the Russians.
MR. BEVIN asked if German investments in other countries would be theirs.
MR. STALIN replied that they would and mentioned France, Belgium, and America as examples.
MR. BEVIN said he agreed and asked if Greece would belong to Britain.
MR. STALIN said the only questions related to Austria and Yugoslavia. Austria was divided into three zones. Yugoslavia was partly in the Russian zone. What should they do with investments there.
MR. BEVIN suggested that they be given to them.
MR. STALIN asked if he wanted Austria too.
MR. BEVIN replied that he did not.
MR. STALIN suggested that the Allies take Yugoslavia and Austria would be divided into zones.
MR. BYRNES asked what Stalin had to say with respect to the shares of German corporations that had been included in Stalin’s proposal yesterday but later withdrawn.
MR. STALIN said that the shares of enterprises located in the American zone would belong to the Americans.
MR. BYRNES said that he understood from this that the Russians would make no claim to shares of enterprises located in the American zones.
MR. STALIN replied that he would not.
MR. BYRNES pointed out that yesterday Stalin had asked for 30 percent of German foreign assets. What percent did he now ask of these assets.
MR. STALIN said he did not know but it would be very small as most of them were west of the demarcation line.
MR. BEVIN said he understood that yesterday the Soviet Government had renounced all claim to foreign assets.
MR. STALIN replied that they were speaking of the western zone of Europe and not the eastern zone. They had yesterday asked for 30 percent of the foreign assets in the west. This had been withdrawn but the Allies should also renounce those in the east.
MR. BEVIN said he understood the Russians had renounced all claim to German foreign assets yesterday.
MR. STALIN said not those in Rumania, Bulgaria, Finland, and Hungary.
MR. BYRNES asked in the case of a Berlin corporation which owned assets located in the American zone or in the United States or in South America, if the Russians claimed a share of the property elsewhere even though [because?] the headquarters were located in the Soviet zone.
MR. STALIN replied that if the enterprises were west of the line the Russians would have no claim on them.
MR. BYRNES said that then if the enterprises themselves were in the United States or elsewhere the Russians would not claim them.
MR. STALIN replied that he would not and added that those in Norway, Switzerland, Spain and other countries in the west would all fall to the Allies.
MR. BEVIN pointed out that this was rather going back on the agreement reached yesterday and asked if Stalin would renounce all claims to German foreign assets outside the zone of Russian occupation.
MR. BYRNES asked what would happen to the previous Soviet claim on gold.
MR. STALIN replied that the Russians would have no claim whatsoever.
MR. BYRNES said he thought it was important to have a meeting of minds. Mr. Bevin’s question was whether the Russian claim was limited to the zone occupied by the Russian Army. To that he understood Mr. Stalin to say “yes”. If that were so he was prepared to agree.
MR. STALIN replied in the affirmative.
MR. BYRNES said that only a few minutes before a claim had been made to assets outside of Germany and to avoid disputes in the future it would be well to have an understanding now. As he understood it the Russians would make no claim to foreign assets unless they were in the zone occupied by the Soviet Army.
MR. STALIN said he considered Finland to be in this zone. Yugoslavia was not but the eastern part of Austria was in their zone.
MR. BEVIN said he assumed it was clear that assets owned by British and Americans in those areas would not be touched.
MR. STALIN replied of course they would not and said that they had not been at war with Great Britain.
MR. BEVIN pointed out that these assets might have been taken over by the Germans.
MR. STALIN replied that in such cases it would be necessary to decide the matter on the merits of each case.
THE PRESIDENT pointed out that doubtless Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia and other countries would claim assets in their territory.
MR. STALIN replied that Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia were in the Allied zone for this purpose.
THE PRESIDENT said that he agreed with the Soviet proposal.
MR. BEVIN said he also agreed.
MR. STALIN said he thought the decision should be put in the Protocol but not published.
MR. BYRNES agreed that it should be put in the Protocol to avoid misunderstanding.
THE PRESIDENT said he thought it should be published.
MR. STALIN said he would agree.
MR. BYRNES referred to the statement in the third paragraph of the report drafted by the committee referring to the situation of the claims from other countries to German external assets. He assumed there would be no objection to that language in view of the agreement just reached.
MR. STALIN suggested the language, “and respective German assets abroad”. He added that it could be defined in the Protocol.
MR. BYRNES suggested that they decide that the language to carry out the agreement just reached be added to the report and that the matter be referred back to the sub-committee.
This was agreed to.
Invitation to France to Become a Member of the Reparations Commission
MR. ATTLEE proposed that the French Government be invited by the three Governments to become a member of the Reparations Commission today.
MR. STALIN suggested that they also invite Poland as Poland had suffered very much.
MR. ATTLEE said he understood it had been agreed that France be invited.
MR. STALIN asked why they should not invite Poland.
THE PRESIDENT said that they had agreed yesterday that the Soviet Government could take care of Poland with respect to reparations and that the Allies could take care of the others. Why mix other hands in the pie?
MR. ATTLEE pointed out that France had a zone of occupation in Germany.
MR. STALIN asked if Attlee was anxious to have France participate.
MR. ATTLEE replied in the affirmative.
MR. STALIN then said he would agree.
Delivery of Food, Coal, and Fuel to Berlin
MR. ATTLEE read the paper which he had submitted on this question which stated that an agreement had been reached on the delivery of 40,000 tons of food per month and 24,000 [2,400] tons of coal per day by the Soviets for the British and American zones in Berlin for thirty days running from July 15. He proposed that the Control Commission should be instructed to draw up a program of food, coal, and fuel to be imported during the next six months into the greater Berlin area. The amount furnished by the Soviet Government could be considered as an advanced delivery under paragraph 4 of the Reparations Agreement.
MR. STALIN pointed out that this was a new question upon which he did not know the opinion of the Control Council. He did not think it possible to have a high standard of living for Germany in the near future. They should ask the Control Commission for the facts and for plans for the future.
MR. ATTLEE replied that it was not a question of a high standard of living. He pointed out that deliveries of capital goods from the Ruhr were to begin now and the supply of necessary food should also begin now. The quantity could be determined by the Control Commission.
MR. STALIN said that in principle of course there should be an agreement but it was impossible to discuss figures here. The military people on the Control Commission could arrange such matters better.
MR. ATTLEE replied that this was what he was asking.
MR. STALIN said he did not know how this matter stood now and added that he could not take a decision now and pull figures out of the air.
MR. ATTLEE said he did not ask for figures.
MR. STALIN replied that he had mentioned figures in his memorandum. Where had they come from?
MR. ATTLEE said that these figures had been agreed upon.
MR. STALIN replied that he did not know about it.
MR. BEVIN pointed out that a temporary agreement was already in [Page 571]existence. The British asked that they decide in principle that when the Control Commission drew up the figure, the Soviet Government would supply the goods. He asked who was going to supply Berlin when the month covered by the present agreement was up.
MR. STALIN said that they should refer the question to the Control Commission.
MR. ATTLEE said that he understood that the Russians wanted supplies of capital goods to come forward from the Ruhr regularly. They were proposing the same thing from the Russian side.
MR. STALIN said he understood. He would like to have the opinion of the Control Commission in order to have something on which to base his decision. He pointed out that there was no similarity between the agreements to supply capital equipment and food since they were to be completed within different periods of time.
MR. ATTLEE replied that the Russians were asking for advance deliveries before the value of the equipment had been set.
MR. STALIN replied that they could refuse to make those advance deliveries.
MR. BEVIN said that they did not wish to do that. They wished to accommodate each other.
MR. STALIN asked what he could do if he was not ready to decide the matter.
MR. BEVIN said then they would postpone it.
Austrian Reparations
MR. ATTLEE said he understood that the Generalissimo had said that Austria would not be called on for reparations, and that this matter was not quite clear. He asked if this were a firm decision.
MR. STALIN replied that it was and that it could be put in the Protocol.
Economic Principles for Germany
MR. BYRNES made a proposal for the inclusion in the document on economic principles for Germany of paragraph 18.
MR. STALIN inquired if this were an amendment or a new proposal.
MR. BYRNES said that a paper had been circulated some days ago and that the sub-committee had reported, recommending the inclusion of this paragraph.
MR. MOLOTOV said that perhaps this amendment would be needed as they had decided on the language with respect to reparations. If they thought it was affected by the decision just taken, they would have to refer it back to the committee. It related to the control of the property of German citizens abroad.
MR. STALIN said he had read the language and could accept it.
This was agreed to.
MR. BYRNES said that the Soviet Government had yesterday asked for time to consider paragraph 19.
MR. MOLOTOV asked if the British draft of paragraph 19 could be accepted and said they had no objection to this draft.
MR. BYRNES said he understood that the British representatives had agreed with the United States representatives that if paragraph 19 was adopted, the words proposed by the American representatives should be added. This was necessary because of the agreement on reparations reached yesterday.
MR. STALIN said he agreed.
MR. ATTLEE also agreed.
MR. BEVIN said that this disposed of the paper on economic principles. Mr. Bevin informed [was to inform?] the French that this was agreed to.
War Crimes
MR. BYRNES said that the question was whether certain war criminals should be referred to by name in the decision of the Conference. The British and American Foreign Ministers thought that this should be left to the prosecutor.
MR. STALIN said that names were necessary. If they were going to try certain German industrialists they should say so. The Soviets had included the name of Krupp for this reason. If they would rather name another German industrialist, he had no objection.
THE PRESIDENT said he did not like any of them and thought that by naming some of them the others might think they would escape.
MR. STALIN pointed out that they mentioned them only as examples. Public opinion was interested in this matter. They wondered why Hess was well fed and cared for.
MR. ATTLEE said they need not worry about that.
MR. STALIN said what was important was the opinion of the people in the occupied countries.
MR. BEVIN said that if they were in any doubt about Hess, he could give an undertaking that Hess would be handed over and he added that they would also send along a bill for his keep.
MR. STALIN said he wanted advanced [advance?] delivery.
MR. ATTLEE replied that he had already received advanced delivery on some of them. He had Goebbels.
MR. STALIN said he personally needed no undertaking. There was a question of public opinion that had to be satisfied.
THE PRESIDENT said that as Mr. Stalin knew the United States had appointed one of its most able jurists to the Commission set up to deal with this question. Justice Jackson advised him that it would be a handicap to him if persons were named before the commission was ready to bring them to trial, which he expected would be within thirty days. All of these people would be named in the indictment and the Marshal need not worry for they would be tried and punished.
MR. STALIN suggested that they might not mention so many. Perhaps three.
MR. ATTLEE suggested Hitler.
MR. STALIN said they did not have Hitler at their disposition but he had no objection to naming him.
MR. STALIN then suggested that perhaps they could say that within one month the first list of war criminals would be published.
This was agreed to.
Use of Allied Property for Satellite Reparations or War Trophies
THE PRESIDENT said a paper on this had been handed to the Soviet Delegation yesterday.
MR. MOLOTOV said he had had no recess from the meetings in which to study it. His first impression had been favorable. Perhaps they could consider it at the evening meeting.
Oil for Western Europe
MR. BYRNES said that this question was now before the Economic Sub-Committee.
Allied Oil Equipment in Rumania
MR. BYRNES said that the Foreign Ministers had agreed that there should be two bilateral commissions, one British-Soviet and one United States-Soviet, to meet within ten days in Rumania to examine the documents and facts in connection with this question.
It was agreed that these commissions would be accorded all necessary facilities to perform their task in Rumania.
The decision of the Foreign Ministers was approved.
Fascist Activities in the U.S. and British Zones in Germany and Austria
MR. BYRNES said that the United States and British representatives in Germany and Austria were investigating the situation reported in the Soviet paper on this subject and that they would inform the Soviets of the results of these investigations and would at that time discuss what further steps should be taken.
Repatriation of Soviet Citizens
The British representatives stated that they are looking into the situation reported in the Soviet paper circulated already on this subject and that they would deal with it as soon as they returned to London. The Soviet representatives circulated a new paper on the subject and laid great stress on the importance which they attached thereto. The U.S. and British representatives stated that they would deal with the matter as promptly as possible.
Disputed Questions Before the Protocol Committee
The American Secretary of State presented four questions on which the Protocol Subcommittee had been unable to reach agreement: (1) Trusteeship Territories; (2) Black Sea Straits; (3) the Koenigsberg Area; and (4) Austria. The Foreign Ministers were able to agree upon texts on all of these questions. They also agreed that only important decisions of the Conference should be included in the Protocol. They approved a suggestion that the decision reached this morning creating bilateral commissions to deal with the question of Allied oil equipment in Rumania should be mentioned in the Protocol.
Revised Procedure for Allied Control Commissions in Rumania, Bulgaria and Hungary
The United States draft on this subject was accepted with the exception of the second sentence. It was agreed that for this sentence there should be substituted the third, fourth and fifth paragraphs of the Soviet paper on the Control Commission in Hungary. A drafting committee was named to prepare the final document for presentation to the Heads of Government.
MR. BYRNES said the committee had reported that the document should read as set forth in the paper which he was now circulating. The committee’s report was accepted.
The Polish Question
THE PRESIDENT at this stage said he wished to report that the President of the Polish Provisional Government and members of the Polish Delegation had called on him this morning and he had informed them of the action which the Conference had taken with respect to Poland. The Poles had agreed to say nothing about it until the report of the Conference was made public. They had asked him to transmit the thanks of the Polish Government to all three Governments at the Conference.
MR. BEVIN said he wished to announce with reference to the matter he had raised yesterday that he had arrived at an agreement with the Poles for a reciprocal air service from London to Warsaw. He added that he was very pleased about this.
MR. BYRNES said that the United States representative had suggested to the Foreign Ministers meeting that in the documents on Poland [and on admission to the United Nations] the words “and radio” should be added wherever the press was mentioned.
MR. STALIN said he did not think this advisable.
MR. ATTLEE agreed that it would not be advisable.
THE PRESIDENT said that the United States had a different system from the other two governments. Radio was controlled in Great Britain by the government. Ours was set up on the same basis as the newspapers. Pressure was being brought on him for radio representation. He pointed out that American radiomen would have nothing to do with radio in the country concerned. They would merely act as correspondents for the radio in the United States.
MR. STALIN suggested that they arrive at an agreement with the respective governments.
MR. BEVIN asked if Mr. Stalin would have any objection to an agreement between the governments.
MR. STALIN replied that he would not.
THE PRESIDENT asked if he would object to the United States’ arranging for the same treatment to be accorded to the press and to the radio.
MR. STALIN said he would not object, but that it should not be mentioned here. This was agreed to.
Disposition of the German Fleet and Merchant Marine
MR. MOLOTOV said that the Soviet Delegation withdrew its objection to the question of Poland receiving her share of ships from the Soviet share.
MR. BYRNES said that then there was agreement on this report. If the experts were agreed, one paragraph of the report would be published in the joint statement.
MR. BEVIN suggested that the following language be used with respect to the Polish and other shares:
The United Kingdom, and the United States will provide out of their shares of the surrendered German merchant ships appropriate amounts for other Allied states whose merchant marines have suffered heavy losses in the common cause against Germany, except that the Soviet Union shall provide out of its share for Poland.
This was agreed to.
MR. ATTLEE suggested that a message be sent to Mr. Churchill and to Mr. Eden thanking them for the parts they had played in the Conference.
This was agreed.
At this point the meeting recessed to await reports of the committees. The meeting was resumed twenty minutes later.
MR. BYRNES inquired if Mr. Molotov had had time to read the document on the use of Allied property as reparations.
MR. MOLOTOV said he had not, but would try to do so before the evening meeting.
MR. ATTLEE suggested that the paper needed some examination. Its provisions were not fully equitable. MR. ATTLEE pointed out that when Allied property was removed from a satellite state, he thought the country which took it should either pay for it or credit it as reparations.
MR. BYRNES inquired if Mr. Attlee proposed doing nothing about this question.
MR. ATTLEE replied that something should be done, but the language should be improved. He also thought that paragraph three with respect to “valuta” needed discussion. He did not see why valuta should be treated any different from other exports with respect to reparations.
MR. STALIN said he thought the American draft was nearer to the correct solution of this problem than Mr. Attlee’s [suggestion?]. He suggested that it be postponed to the evening session.
Inland Waterways
MR. BYRNES said that this question which had been submitted by the President had been discussed and it had been decided to refer it to the Council of Foreign Ministers. The Protocol and Communiqué Committees could not agree to state this fact.
THE PRESIDENT said all he wanted was a factual statement that it had been referred to the Council of Foreign Ministers.
MR. ATTLEE said he agreed.
MR. STALIN said there was already enough in the protocol.
THE PRESIDENT pointed out that the action was taken by the Conference and he had agreed to the inclusion of a great many things in the communiqué. He was only pressing this one thing.
MR. STALIN said it had not been discussed at the Conference.
THE PRESIDENT said he had discussed it at length on three [two?] different days and a committee had had it under consideration for ten days.
MR. STALIN said the question was not mentioned in a list of questions submitted before the Conference and the Russians were not in a position to discuss it. They should not be in a hurry to dispose of the matter.
THE PRESIDENT said that he did not ask that it be disposed of, but merely that it be referred to the Council of Foreign Ministers and that this be stated.
MR. STALIN pointed out that there was nothing in the communiqué in regard to the Black Sea Straits. The question of inland waterways was raised in connection with the question of the Black Sea Straits. Why should they give preference to this.
THE PRESIDENT pointed out that the question of the Black Sea Straits would be mentioned.
MR. STALIN did not think it should be mentioned.
THE PRESIDENT at first said he agreed, but then continued that he did not see why matters decided at the Conference should not be in the communiqué and in the protocol.
MR. STALIN said because it would make them too long.
THE PRESIDENT said that be was trying to prevent a situation in which it could be charged that secret agreements were concluded at the Conference.
MR. STALIN said that the answer was that there were no secret agreements.
MR. BYRNES said he wished to submit that they had agreed to refer this document to the Council of Foreign Ministers. As long as they had taken that action, could they not agree to state it. If it were not in the communiqué they would not want to make a statement in the United States about it.
MR. STALIN said that at Tehran and at previous conferences there were two kinds of decisions. One kind was included in the protocol and these were greater than those published in the communiqué. This did not mean that they were secret. It meant that there was no need to publish them. Policy decisions were put in the protocol. Decisions of a formal nature, not affecting the substance of the question, should not be mentioned in the communiqué but only in the protocol. This did not mean that decisions [not] in the communiqué were secret.
THE PRESIDENT said he had no objection if this applied to all questions, but he wanted to be free to mention this matter of inland waterways in any statement he might have to make before the Senate.
MR. STALIN said of course he had this right.
Meeting adjourned.